Empower Spell Question

[dvvega]

I've never used this feat before or even considered using it, so I really do not understand its operation.

In the case of a magic missile for example cast by an 8th level Wizard (4 missiles) ...

normally it is 4d4+4 ... and empower version would be

4d4 + 6?
4d4 + (1/2 of 4d4 roll) + 6?
4d4 + (1/2 of 4d4 roll) + 4?


or is there something else?

In addition when combined with Maximise Spell, the feat description implies that you have to roll the Empower Feat part of the spell, however I would have assumed that you are maximising the complete spell.

So would it be in the same situation ...

20 (maximised) + (1/2 of 4d4 roll)?
20 (maximised) + (1/2 of 4d4 roll) + 2?

or other number?

D

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

It would help to look at the example in the PHB (which, quite helpfully, is magic missile).

You get (1d4+1)x1.5 once for each missile. In practice, a lot of people simplify this to (Y4d4+Y) 1.5 where Y is the number of missiles and most DMs I've played with don't begrudge players the extra two or three points of damage they get out of that.

In the case of a maximized and empowered magic missile that is somehow cast at 7th or 8th level (despite being a 6th level spell), the answer would be:

20 (maximized) + 1/2 (1d4+1) + 1/2 (1d4+1) + 1/2 (1d4+1) + 1/2 (1d4+1)

A lot of players would probably simplify that to:

20 (maximized) + 1/2 (4d4+4)

 

[dvvega]

Thank you ...

now I see ... you empower each roll.

What was confusing me was the empower feat stating that it only empowers variable factors. So the + 1 from the missile isn't variable IMHO.

So I was wonder if it wasn't something like (1d4) x 1.5 + 1

D

 

[Hypersmurf]

What was confusing me was the empower feat stating that it only empowers variable factors. So the + 1 from the missile isn't variable IMHO.

The 'variable factor' is 'damage dealt by the missile'.

The 'damage dealt by the missile' is '1d4+1'.

The easiest way to decide what's variable and what isn't - if the caster cast the spell five times, could he guarantee identical results every time?

Let's say we have a 7th level caster casting magic missile. He can guarantee four missiles every time - number of missiles is not variable. He can guarantee a range of 170 feet (he might elect to hit a target closer, but it's entirely within his control) - range is not variable. He can't guarantee identical damage from each missile - damage per missile is variable.

It's a random variable with a 25% chance each of being 2, 3, 4, or 5. Thus, the result of that random variable (2, 3, 4, or 5) is multiplied by 1.5 by the feat.

-Hyp.

 

[Lizzybeth]

When it mentions variable values, it doesn't mean the actual dice rolls. It means the parts of the spell. So the damage is a variable. Shield creates 1 shield for you with a +4 to AC. No variables there. You can't be affected by more than one shield spell, and the +4 AC is a bonus created by the spell effect, not the spell itself.

Since the damage of the magic missile is 1d4+1, that whole total is taken together. The damage is the total of the die and the +1, not one and then the other.

 

[dvvega]

Cool ... I still think that logically that +1 isn't variable but I don't really care that much

Thank you very much for the help ... now I can try and create the character I was thinking of the other day.

D

 

[Hypersmurf]

Cool ... I still think that logically that +1 isn't variable but I don't really care that much

[+1] isn't variable.
[1d3] is variable.
[1d4 + 1] is variable.
[1d8 + level] is variable.

All four of those represent single values. 'The morale bonus' from Bless is +1. 'The number of Celestial Badgers' summoned by Summon Monster II is 1d3. 'The damage dealt' by a single Magic Missile is 1d4 + 1. 'The damage cured' by Cure Light Wounds is 1d8 + level.

Of those four values, only the morale bonus from Bless is not a variable amount.

-Hyp.

 

[dvvega]

Ah but you see ... you can also take the view point that ..

1. you roll 1d4 (the variable)
2. you add 1 to the result of that roll. (the non-variable)

Thus you would empower the 1d4 and just add the 1.

As I said it matters not, however empowering the 1d4+1 is much easier in gameplay I would say. So I'd just stick with that anyhow.

Just wanted to make sure I wouldn't slow the game down by having to ask about Empower everytime I cast a spell with it.

D

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ah but you see ... you can also take the view point that ..

1. you roll 1d4 (the variable)
2. you add 1 to the result of that roll. (the non-variable)

Not given the example in the PHB

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

From the Player's Handbook:

EMPOWER SPELL... For example, an empowered magic missile deals one and one-half times normal damage (roll 1d4+1 and multiply the result by 1.5 for each missile).