Encounter Distance--am I missing something?

[PattonDM]

I was trying to find the rules for determining the distance between PC's and NPC's at the start of an encounter.

The DMG has some rules listed by terrain type, but I couldn't find any for Underground/Dungeon.

Can someone please point me in the right direction?

 

[Philip]

Encounter distance in the dungeon is usually line of sight as distances are usually not that large. The 3.5 DMG considerable simplified (fortunately) the archaic 3.o encounter distance and awareness rules.

Just check when each group is aware of the other. Consider that factors as darkness and darkvision can modify line of sight for one or both parties, causing one to be aware when the other isn't. If one or both make enough noise the others can be aware through listen checks (just look at the listen skill and find at what distance things can be heard).

 

[Kirowan]

It's not in the 3.5 DMG. I asked the same question not too long ago. I think it's an oversight actually. It's just not WotC's style to go from a very mechanical resolution method to one based mostly on DM fiat.

Nick

 

[PattonDM]

I think it is odd. I was just reading through Siege of Ebonring Keep and they used encounter distances although I have no idea how they set their mechanics up since it doesn't follow 3.0 or 3.5 conventions.

In the new Dungeon magazine, the encounters are set up detailing light conditions, sounds and auras but no encounter distances.

Since I am running an Underdark adventure currently, most encounter distances are at 120' (range of Drow's darkvision) or variable if using a listen check.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think it is odd. I was just reading through Siege of Ebonring Keep and they used encounter distances although I have no idea how they set their mechanics up since it doesn't follow 3.0 or 3.5 conventions.

Shouldn't that use Arcana Unearthed's mechanics?

Terrain Distance        Spotting Distance
Smoke or heavy fog           2d4 × 5 feet (average 25 feet)
Jungle or dense forest       2d4 × 10 feet (50 feet)
Light forest                        3d6 × 10 feet (105 feet)
Scrub, brush, or bush        6d6 × 10 feet (210 feet)
Grassland, little cover        6d6 × 20 feet (420 feet)
Total darkness                   Limit of sight
Indoors (lit)                        Line of sight

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

What page in the DMG 3.5?
I can't find that rule, or even the simplified rule.

 

[Kirowan]

That's what I'm saying Psi. The encounter distances in the 3.5 DMG are found in the different terrain types in Chapter 3. But the other rules for spotting distances are missing.

Nick

 

[Nail]

That's what I'm saying Psi. The encounter distances in the 3.5 DMG are found in the different terrain types in Chapter 3. But the other rules for spotting distances are missing.

Nick

Could anyone post these? No DMG at work. And how do they interact with Spot skill? Or listen skills? Etc..

 

[Kirowan]

I would appreciate if someone could post these as well. I don't have my 3.0 DMG anymore.

Nick

 

[coyote6]

A very rapid cut 'n paste from the 3.0 SRD. Formatting will probably be whacked.

Edit: super-whacked!
Edit2: I hate having to scroll to the side. Small monitor.

[color=white]
ENCOUNTERS
When an encounter between the PCs and an NPC or creature is
imminent, follow these steps:
1. Determine vision conditions and terrain. Choose from the 
choices on Table: Spotting Distance.
2. If line of sight or illumination defines the distance at which the 
encounter occurs (as often happens indoors), start the encounter 
there. Otherwise, roll for spotting distance on Table: Spotting 
Distance.
3. All creatures involved make Spot checks. Success means that 
creature sees the other creature or group. See Table: Spotting 
Difficulty for modifiers on these checks.
4. If neither side succeeds, all creatures spot each other at one-
half the rolled range.
The circumstances that can affect the DC of a Spot check are as 
follows:

Size: Add +4 to the base DC of 20 for each size category the 
creature being spotted is smaller than Medium-size or -4 for each
size category larger. You can make exceptions for creatures with 
unusual shapes, such as a Large snake that's low to the ground 
and thus as hard to see as a Small creature.

Contrast: How starkly the creature's coloring stands out against 
the surroundings. It's easy to spot a brightly colored couatl in a 
dark jungle and hard to see winter wolves in the snow.

Stillness: It's harder to see creatures that are not moving.

Six or More Creatures: Groups of creatures are easier to spot, 
even if the creatures are smaller than Medium-size.

Moonlight: Nighttime, but with moonlight (or similar light).

Starlight: Nighttime with no moon but a clear, starry sky (or 
similar light).

Total Darkness: Overcast at night, or otherwise lightless.

Hiding and Spotting
If creatures are trying not to be seen, it's usually harder to spot 
them, but creatures that are keeping low to avoid being spotted 
also are less likely to notice other creatures.

If creatures are hiding, they can only move at half their normal 
overland speed. They also suffer a -2 penalty on their Spot 
checks to notice other creatures because they are staying low.

Instead of a base DC of 20 for others to spot them at the 
standard spotting distance, the DC is 25 + the hider's Hide skill 
modifier. The modifiers from Table 3-2: Spotting Difficulty still 
apply, except for the size modifier (which is already part of the 
character's skill modifier). A character whose Hide ranks, Dexterity 
modifier, and armor check penalty total -6 or lower is actually has 
a lower DC than if he or she weren't hiding. In such cases, simply 
calculate the Spot DC as if the character weren't hiding (according 
to Table: Spotting Difficulty). If a creature gets a special bonus to 
Hide because of camouflage, special coloring, and so on, use that 
bonus rather than the contrast bonus from Table: Spotting 
Difficulty.

Additionally, the other creatures do not automatically spot hiding 
creatures at one-half the encounter distance. Instead, that is the 
distance at which the other creatures can make Spot checks to 
notice the hiding creatures. These are normal Spot checks 
opposed by the hiders' Hide checks.

Table: Spotting Distance
Terrain				Distance
-------				--------
Smoke or heavy fog		2d4 x 5 ft. (avg. 25 ft.)
Jungle or dense forest		2d4 x 10 ft. (50 ft.)
Light forest			3d6 x 10 ft. (105 ft.)
Scrub, brush or bush		6d6 x 10 ft. (210 ft.)
Grassland, little cover	6d6 x 20 ft. (420 ft.)
Total darkness			Limit of sight
Indoors (lit)			Line of sight
Table: Spotting Difficulty
Circumstances			DC
-------------			--
Base				20*
Size				+/-4 per size category
Contrast			+/-5 or more
Stillness (not moving)		+5
Six or more creatures		-2
Moonlight**			+5
Starlight†			+10
Total darkness			Impossible††
*x25 if one side is hiding, and ignore size modifiers (see text).
**+5 bonus on Spot check if the spotter has low-light vision or if 
he or she has darkvision that extends far enough.
†x+5 bonus on Spot check if the spotter has low-light vision or 
+10 if he or she has darkvision that extends far enough.
††Unless the spotter has darkvision that extends far enough.

Missed Encounters
The rules for spotting creatures assume that both sides will 
eventuallynotice each other, and they simply establish the 
distance at which they do so. But sometimes you want to take 
into account the possibility that the two groups will miss each 
other entirely.

To handle these possibilities, simply let there be a 50% chance 
that the other creatures encountered and the PCs don't get any 
closer but rather pass by each other, such as when one group is 
moving north and the other east. (Creatures following the PCs' 
trail, of course, always close with them.)
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