D&D 5E End-game gimmicks: the problem with 5e meta-plots

BMaC

Adventurer
I'm currently DMing Tomb of Annihilation and before this I played through all previous 5e releases. They all have something in common: the players encounter a big boss at the end and due to their relatively low-level either the boss is nerfed or the players are significantly buffed. This is because all of the adventures, with the exception of Strahd, involve world-shaking meta plots where the small band of plucky adventures must save the Forgotten Realms from Tiamat, demon lords, evil elemental princes, etc. Strahd is not a meta-plot like the others but still relies on the gimmick mechanic. None of these adventures advance the players to a level that would be appropriate for a straight encounter with these end-game bosses. The lack of high level support for 5e is a gripe of mine, and we're all familiar with the arguments for why this is the case (ranging from "nobody plays high level" to "D&D breaks mechanically"). Regardless of the reason, the combination of meta plot world-ending boss and level 12 characters results in mandatory gimmicks.

The reliance on gimmicks in all published 5e modules is a consequence of the contradictions I have outlined above. The solution is quite simple: either eliminate the meta plot or advance players to level 18-20 and eliminate the gimmick. Eliminating the meta-plot is the most straightforward solution (meta-plots are also stretch credulity--the death curse would, in my campaign world, result in a few level 20 clerics, wizards, and paladins immediately appearing in Port Nyanzaru to address the problem). In my ToA of campaign, the activation of the Soulmonger resulted in localized eldritch-necromancy storms and those caught in the storm (in my case, the players on a ship) are affected by the death curse.

I hope that future releases do not rely on gimmicks at the final stage of the adventure.
 

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Corpsetaker

First Post
I'm currently DMing Tomb of Annihilation and before this I played through all previous 5e releases. They all have something in common: the players encounter a big boss at the end and due to their relatively low-level either the boss is nerfed or the players are significantly buffed. This is because all of the adventures, with the exception of Strahd, involve world-shaking meta plots where the small band of plucky adventures must save the Forgotten Realms from Tiamat, demon lords, evil elemental princes, etc. Strahd is not a meta-plot like the others but still relies on the gimmick mechanic. None of these adventures advance the players to a level that would be appropriate for a straight encounter with these end-game bosses. The lack of high level support for 5e is a gripe of mine, and we're all familiar with the arguments for why this is the case (ranging from "nobody plays high level" to "D&D breaks mechanically"). Regardless of the reason, the combination of meta plot world-ending boss and level 12 characters results in mandatory gimmicks.

The reliance on gimmicks in all published 5e modules is a consequence of the contradictions I have outlined above. The solution is quite simple: either eliminate the meta plot or advance players to level 18-20 and eliminate the gimmick. Eliminating the meta-plot is the most straightforward solution (meta-plots are also stretch credulity--the death curse would, in my campaign world, result in a few level 20 clerics, wizards, and paladins immediately appearing in Port Nyanzaru to address the problem). In my ToA of campaign, the activation of the Soulmonger resulted in localized eldritch-necromancy storms and those caught in the storm (in my case, the players on a ship) are affected by the death curse.

I hope that future releases do not rely on gimmicks at the final stage of the adventure.

Or stop with these corny and god awful adventures and release more sourcebooks that allow people to make their own.
 


hawkeyefan

Legend
I’ve managed all this by adjusting the level progression so that the PCs are higher level when they face these major threats. My campaign has included Princes of the Apocalypse, Curse of Strahd, and Tomb of Annihilation...as well as a lot of homebrew material. I plan on using several of the demon lords depicted in Out of the Abyss for later in my campaign.

My players haven’t yet faced any of the Elemental Princes of Evil, but they will in a few levels. Right now we just started Tomb of Annihilation. I plan on running that pretty much as is, with some tweaks for their current level, which is 11. After that, they’ll need to deal with the lingering Elemental Cults and face one or more of the Elemental Princes. They’ll also be facing off against a bunch of other villains including some of the Demon Lords. I have plenty of stuff planned for levels 14 to 20.

You don’t have to run the modules exactly as presented. If you don’t like something, then you can and should change it. I think the lack of published high level game material is a valid criticism of 5E. But I also realize the reasons behind it, and so I don’t expect it to change significantly. So I’ll take care of it myself. I think that’s the only solution.....whether that means you alter the plot to fit what you want, or you tweak things for higher level PCs, or any other method, that’s just a matter of preference.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I haven't really used any of the published adventures outside of LMoP and part of HotDQ. I own all of them but haven't read them. I played through CoS. What are these gimmicks you speak of?
 

BMaC

Adventurer
I haven't really used any of the published adventures outside of LMoP and part of HotDQ. I own all of them but haven't read them. I played through CoS. What are these gimmicks you speak of?

I can't figure out how to do [/spoiler] tags on this forum so I'll just say that in the published 5e adventures either the party receives substantial buffs or the end-boss is nerfed.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I can't figure out how to do [/spoiler] tags on this forum so I'll just say that in the published 5e adventures either the party receives substantial buffs or the end-boss is nerfed.

Is it something like getting hold of a macguffin that aids you in the final battle or complete some quest to weaken the villain?
 

Croesus

Adventurer
I'm currently DMing Tomb of Annihilation and before this I played through all previous 5e releases. They all have something in common: the players encounter a big boss at the end and due to their relatively low-level either the boss is nerfed or the players are significantly buffed.

I don't see a lot of gimmicks, nor the need to buff the characters, but that's because I'm not convinced most CR 18-20 creatures are actually that tough. My game group took out Ogremoch when they were level 11. Granted, there were 4 PCs, plus 4 somewhat lower-level NPCs. But Ogremoch also had 2 NPCs on his side, one of whom was a 20th level barbarian. The fight was tough and the party only pulled it out because they had lots of healing (gotta love those NPCs). No matter how often Ogremoch or his minions dropped a character, someone was around to get them back in the fight and they eventually outlasted the prince.

I would suggest the real issue with these modules is that they cover too many levels. There's just no way to adequately account for how each party will fare going through the module, nor what level they will be when they reach the various encounters. The solution is for the GM to be very flexible in running such modules, adapting as needed. I don't see that as gimmicky, but YMMV.
 

Glenn Fleetwood

First Post
I ran a game to 20th without a problem - the mechanics didn't break and they were up against a CR32 Vecna, a side plot from Orcus and the Camazotz demon lord from Tome of Beasts, the Ghoul Emperor and a squad of full vampire assassins. The CR levels were out of whack, but then the party did have an artefact each and other magic items.

But account for that, and it played very well, and went right down to the wire in an epic finale.

High level play can work, just throw out the CR rules at 5th level onwards and balance as you see fit, you'll be fine...
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I much more like quests about saving the world from big evil than saving suzies cats from the cat eating monster living deep in the cave.
 

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