energy drain and other necro spells

[moritheil]

Just burn the bodies. Big deal. That also helps prevent some forms of regeneration, and makes it more difficult for your foe's allies to raise him.

Hmm, that's a pretty big assumption. You never get into running battles where you barely pull away with all of your party members not dead? In such a situation, you wouldn't be able to do anything with the corpses left on the field. As such, they would rise, and YOU would be responsible for the new horde of undead running amok. Certainly not a good aligned thing to do, although I can easily see a neutral arguing that they intended to take care of it.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Just burn the bodies. Big deal. That also helps prevent some forms of regeneration, and makes it more difficult for your foe's allies to raise him.

This kind of statement tells me more about your alignment, than the ability's.

 

[glass]

True, but I cannot help but be swayed by FranktheDM's citation. If any creature killed by energy drain becomes, at the very least, a wight, I can't help but see that as an evil act.

What happens when an evil first level character picks up a holy sword? Does this mean that holy swords are evil?

EDIT: Actually, I'm kidding. If Energy Drain does not have the [Evil] descriptor, then it should do IMHO. But I wouldn't necesarily tar all spells of the necromancy scholl with the same brush.


glass.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

What happens when an evil first level character picks up a holy sword? Does this mean that holy swords are evil?

I know you're joking here, but it is a somewhat valid question. I'd probably rule that the evil first level character picking up the holy sword would fall unconscious until the sword was removed rather than die, as opposed to the evil char dying and becoming a wight due to touching a holy sword!

EDIT: Actually, I'm kidding. If Energy Drain does not have the [Evil] descriptor, then it should do IMHO. But I wouldn't necesarily tar all spells of the necromancy scholl with the same brush.

Certainly not. You'll note that I'm not even sure I'd mark Energy Drain itself as [Evil], though killing by Energy Drain may require that moniker.

And even if I do rule it an Evil act, it wouldn't be enough to switch someone's alignment all at once either. Unless the PC were doing a lot of other evil things as well.

 

[frankthedm]

I am of the opinion using energy drain is one of the most evil ways to attack someone. Unless you have absolute proof the attack CANNOT kill them, you risk damning them to an eternity of soul consuming hunger.

 

[Jack Simth]

True, but I cannot help but be swayed by FranktheDM's citation. If any creature killed by energy drain becomes, at the very least, a wight, I can't help but see that as an evil act.

I suppose it could be narrowly defined to include the killing and only the killing of creatures using energy drain that is evil, while still allowing energy drain attacks that don't actually kill as neutral...but that's a fine line to tread...

Actually, it's possible to kill some things with energy drain/enervation without hitting them with enough negative levels to equal or outweigh their Hit Dice. Seriously - a negative level also reduces the target's HP by 5, in addition to the other effects, so a fighter-type opponent who had taken a fair amount of damage could be killed without too many negative levels. Likewise, a Wizard or Sorceror with a Con score of 10 averages 2.5 HP per level after the first - each negative level does two levels worth of HP reduction (it isn't actually damage....), so that Wiz-10 with 10 Con can be killed with about 6 negative levels.

 

[Testament]

What happens when an evil first level character picks up a holy sword? Does this mean that holy swords are evil?

IMC, that's not an actual "Energy Drain" effect. It's karma frying them, and the negative level effects from enchantments like Bane, Holy, Axiomatic etc don't trigger wightdom. By the same token, Death Ward does't protect you.

Oh, and on the matter of Wights, who here knows the Wight Plague theory? Using the demographics and population distribution given in the DMG, one wight causes the apocalypse when it gets lose in a town. It kills one commoner, and they rise as a wight in a few rounds. My friends and I worked out that you have 40 minutes to stop it before there are too many wights to possibly stop with every cleric in a normal city.

 

[Jack Simth]

They wouldn't be quite so much trouble if the DM added the Vampire's assorted weaknesses (Garlic, Mirrors, Holy Symbols, running water problems, need permission to enter homes, dies fast in sunlight) to stave that off.

Of course, the D&D dieties might also take notice and deal with a sudden Wight swarm themselves.... hmm.... could make a good plot hook - the cleric's diety send him a vision, and sends him on a mission - he has to stop a magic user from enervating his attacker to death... but the attacker is disguised, as is the mage....
For a hack&slash group, they can just track down the event, and deal with the body when the time comes. For an RP group, they can see about arranging for the attacker and mage from ever meeting....

Back on Topic:
For the most part, necromancy is a rather dark art, even those spells that don't have the evil descriptor. That said, it also has some really useful spells that don't hurt anyone meaningfully (at least, not directly - Spectral Hand can be used to deliver damaging or status ailment spells, but also good spells from other disciplines, up to 4th level, anyway) such as False Life (shield yourself, sort of, anyway), Spectral Hand (increases the range of what is meant by "touch" ... for spells of 4th or lower), Gentle Repose (useful for preserving the body till you can do the next on the list, if you don't have access to clerical abilities), Clone (raise dead!), and Astral Projection (explore the Astral Plane!). The rest either deal with undead directly, deal damage, or change other's status for the worse (for them). Of course, other schools have much worse stuff, if you ignore the descriptors - for example, Trap the Soul is conjouration, Feeblemind is enchantment, Imprisonment is Abjuration, Baelful polymorph is transmutation, and Phantasmal Killer is Illusion. Should the school be judged on the fact that it mostly focuses on hurting your enemies? Granted, it contains some of the more torturous spells (assorted undead-making spells), but it also holds some protective, restoritive, and utility spells as well. How many other schools accessable by a vanilla Sorceror or Wizard permit the Sor/Wiz to restore a fallen ally to life?

 

[glass]

IMC, that's not an actual "Energy Drain" effect. It's karma frying them, and the negative level effects from enchantments like Bane, Holy, Axiomatic etc don't trigger wightdom. By the same token, Death Ward does't protect you.

That is what I would do in an actual game, but it's not what the actual letter of the rules appears to say.

Oh, and on the matter of Wights, who here knows the Wight Plague theory? Using the demographics and population distribution given in the DMG, one wight causes the apocalypse when it gets lose in a town. It kills one commoner, and they rise as a wight in a few rounds. My friends and I worked out that you have 40 minutes to stop it before there are too many wights to possibly stop with every cleric in a normal city.

It's certainly true: Spawn creating undead, along with D&D demographics in general, economics and metalurgy don't bare thinking about too muh.


glass.