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English Grammar and Spelling

the_myth said:
What an interesting way to avoid being quoted, Harmon...

Nice catch. When I read his edited post, I figured that he had second thoughts on what he posted and decided to take them down. I didn't realize that it was all a ploy to avoid being quoted.

Well, I just wanted to congratulate you on calling Harmon out. The English language thanks you.
 

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trancejeremy said:
I could swear I've seen in it Raymond Chandler's writings. I know I've seen it in works by H. Beam Piper and Louis L'amour.
And we all know that mister L'amour, king of the trashy western, is an absolute bastion of strong writing skills. ;)
 

Language is communication. It is used in one of three main ways:
1) Expression. If all you're doing is singing your magnificent Yawp to the world, have at it: it doesn't matter what conventions you follow or ignore, or even whether you speak in coherent syllables, as long as you don't care about someone else picking up on the communication.
2) Communication. This is where it gets tricky: you're trying to get the pictures in your brain to form similar pictures in my brain. In order to do that successfully, you absolutely need to follow all kinds of conventions. If you want me to imagine a pink curly-tailed animal wallowing in mud, you'd better not talk about the furry red duck Also, make sure you get your word order right: "Saw pink mud with curly I pig yesterday tail a the in" won't get you anywhere on the communication game. And if your audience doesn't speak English, a sentence like, "I saw a pink pig with a curly tail in the mud yesterday" will be a total failure at communication.
3) Aesthetic. Sometimes you want your audience to form pictures in their brain that aren't just similar to your brainpix, but that are beautiful to boot. Or, if not beautiful, then ominous, or hilarious, or impressive, or whatever. You want to convey something beyond the simple picture. In that case, you have a host of other conventions to follow. Are you trying to convey your hipness to an American teenager? Don't you dare say, "I looks as if I am winning this game, my friend." Instead, the proper expression would be something like, "Dude, I am so pwning your ass!" Conversely, if you're trying to convey to an audience of ENWorld posters that you've got linguistic chops, be sure to proofread your post and avoid the use of nonstandard English except in quotes or sly self-references.

That's my basic approach to language. Of course "pwned" is a word; by what strange and idiosyncratic definition of "word" is it not a word? It's a collection of morphemes that conveys a distinct meaning. Still, of course it is a word inappropriate to use in certain contexts. You should no more use "pwned" when writing an English paper than you should use "prolix" when chastising a chatty second grader during a math lesson (unless you're ready to take the time to divert your lesson into a vocabulary lesson).

If you're complaining about linguistic evolution through ignorance, I'm afraid, my childer, that you're going to have to go back a ways. The original plural of "child" was "childer," of course. Eventually people began interpreting that word as singular, and they began pluralizing "childer" as "children." That, too, has become an irregular plural, and occasionally people will pluralize "children" as "childrens." Thus linguistic change. At what point should we stop the bus?

Comparisons of linguistic defiance to defiance of the law ignore a fundamental difference between the two: the law is created by a central governing body, which spells out explicit penalties for defiance and backs up these penalties with force. Language is created by six billion people every day, with no central governing body, no explicit penalties for defiance*, and no force to back them up. Nobody ever got arrested for saying "ain't."

Language is alive; it cannot die as long as two humans are alive. People who speak a language cannot show it disrespect, except by trying to mummify it and preserve it in a museum. In its volatile, polymorphous, protean nature is one its most awesome strengths.

Daniel

* Some countries try to have these, so maybe I should limit myself to the US.
 


Huw said:
Ah, "bus". Look up the etymology for that and see how distorted language can get :D

"Bus lane" is an oxymoron.
look up short bus. i think moron isn't something you want to say.

diaglo "putting the ox before the y" Ooi
 

Arbiter of Wyrms said:
I am a linguist and a teacher of English. As a linguist, my training leads me toward descriptivism, rather than proscriptivism. That is, I am trained to observe the language people use, not to tell them what language they should use. As an English teacher, I cringe when my fellow ENworlders (who are, on the whole, highly literate) use badwrong language. It is my job to correct the language use of twelve-year-olds, but I believe that it is rude to call people on their language use in a discussion thread on any other topic.

I cringe when I see a linguist and a teacher of English using slang words like "badwrong."

Maybe its time to step away from the twelve-year-olds. :D
 

Huw said:
Ah, "bus". Look up the etymology for that and see how distorted language can get :D

"Bus lane" is an oxymoron.
Hmm..."bus" is (as I just confirmed) short for "omnibus," a Latin derivative meaning, "for everyone." The idea is presumably that this form of transportation is for everyone. How is shortening it to "bus" a distortion of the language? What does "distorted" even mean in this context? If the language is expressing an idea and communicating it aesthetically to the intended audience, what function of language does it fail to perform?

"Bus lane" refers to a lane reserved for people on the (omni)bus. Sure, it's a restricted lane, and maybe it appears as though it's therefore not "omnibus," not "for everyone"--but of course it IS for everyone, as long as they're willing to be on the vehicle for everyone designed to go in that lane.

I guess i can get pretty avid in my defense of the language, too :).

Daniel
 

Sorry, Myth that you misunderstand what I wrote and later deleted (five minutes later), because I thought it was poor form for me to post a personal (not even sure what to call it) "issue" on a forum like this (my lacking in writing and reading comprehension). I thought that it might create some flames (like you created), unnecessarily, also it did not fit the thread and thus I thought it poor form to write about it here.

It was my hope that no one would see it and that my post might be taken in some light as perhaps a joke. Of course, as usually I was right- I was wrong.

You wrote near a page on the attack about something I deleted because I thought it was poor form for me to do so, I hope that you understand I take no offense to your attacks, and I hope that you understand that some people (me included) have placed years of study and class attendance (more then 30 college units in the past twenty years) to learning to improve reading comprehension and writing skills, and yet have had no improvement. Why? Dyslexia.

The OP is a teacher and for that I am thankful, we need more teachers, but the post was pretty unkind to those of us that have placed a lot of effort into improving reading and writing skills and had no improvement because of a disability.

Hiding behind a disability- I understand, poor form, course a teacher in high school told me that I might have reached my potiental, that like a paralyzed person or a blind person I might find that some things are just out of my reach.

So.... I deleted the post, because I thought that it was poor form, that no one here would care about my fight/struggle, and you proved to me that I was very, very right. No one cares about me here or here.

I am sorry to take away from this thread, if I knew or understood how to respond without taking away from it I would, but I felt I needed to speak up instead of deleting the post.

Peace
 

FickleGM said:
Nice catch. When I read his edited post, I figured that he had second thoughts on what he posted and decided to take them down. I didn't realize that it was all a ploy to avoid being quoted.

Well, I just wanted to congratulate you on calling Harmon out. The English language thanks you.

Or perhaps- well I suppose I have already answered that.
 


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