Enlightened Title: PDF Margins must be higher due to the smaller audience.

[pogre]

Original question well answered by Morrus et al.
Greetings,

I was considering buying a PDF adventure for use in my current campaign. I got sticker shock! I did not expect the adventures to run more than $4.50. Needless to say, many were $6.00 to $7.00!

I would expect to pay around $12.00 for a 48 page printed module, perhaps $15.00 for a 64-page module - Given those prices, I think PDF prices are way out of line. Check Necromancer's site if you think my prices are off.

An adventure that retails for $12.00 gets the publisher around $4.80 (40%). Now remember, the consumer gets a printed, bound book. Further, the publisher has the added cost of printing the book. Assume the publisher has done his homework and has the books printed for a $1.00 each (a fairly conservative estimate). That means the publisher is getting $3.80 per book.

I am not considering the costs of layout, art, and so on, because assumably PDF publishers have those expenses as well.

So shouldn't PDF Adventures cost less? Remember, most consumers have the added burden of providing paper and ink.

I guess this is really good news for the hobby retail industry - I just fail to understand why PDFs would not be a cheaper alternative to printed products rather than more expensive.

I am not a PDF publisher - so by all means educate me. Help me understand the flaws in my assumptions.

 

[Morrus]

It's because PDF sales figures are so low. Necromancer Games will sell 1,000 units for a poor-selling product. A PDF publisher is lucky to hit 80 units. Given that layout, art, editing etc. costs are, as you say, a constant for both types of publisher, a PDF has to be priced higher just to break even. 80 vs. 1000-4000 is a vast, vast difference, even taking into account printing costs.

You might suggest that by reducing the price, more units will be sold. Experimentation shows that that is not the case, and doing so results in the publisher paying for the privilage of selling you a product, rather that making a profit from it. Even at these prices, most PDF publishers literally scrape by, and many lose money fairly constantly.

 

[jgbrowning]

Greetings,

I was considering buying a PDF adventure for use in my current campaign. I got sticker shock! I did not expect the adventures to run more than $4.50. Needless to say, many were $6.00 to $7.00!

I would expect to pay around $12.00 for a 48 page printed module, perhaps $15.00 for a 64-page module - Given those prices, I think PDF prices are way out of line. Check Necromancer's site if you think my prices are off.

An adventure that retails for $12.00 gets the publisher around $4.80 (40%). Now remember, the consumer gets a printed, bound book. Further, the publisher has the added cost of printing the book. Assume the publisher has done his homework and has the books printed for a $1.00 each (a fairly conservative estimate). That means the publisher is getting $3.80 per book.

I am not considering the costs of layout, art, and so on, because assumably PDF publishers have those expenses as well.

So shouldn't PDF Adventures cost less? Remember, most consumers have the added burden of providing paper and ink.

I guess this is really good news for the hobby retail industry - I just fail to understand why PDFs would not be a cheaper alternative to printed products rather than more expensive.

I am not a PDF publisher - so by all means educate me. Help me understand the flaws in my assumptions.

PDFs are a cheaper alternative. In your example they are $6-$7 vrs the $12-15 you expect for a book of the same size. That's roughly 1/2 price--which is what PDF's are usually around.

I have a feeling I've missed your question, however, so I'll throw this in-- you have to also consider that the expenses in creating the adventure are fixed (ie. artwork, writing, time) while the sales figures are much lower for PDF. In order to cover costs and make any profit, a higher profit% per sale is needed.

Say I spend $1 to print 1000 copies of a 64 page adventure. I have also spent around $700 for art ($25 per 1/4 page for 6 pages of art total +$100 cover) and around $900 for the writing for a total expenses of $2,600. I sell it for $15 and make 40% for profit of $6 for each unit (not including shipping/marketing here).

I'll break even when # 433 sells so If I sell out the run of 1000 (good luck for a module in this market) I'll have made roughly $3400.

PDF only reduces cost by $1000 (printing) so my expenses are around $1600. I sell it as a $7 PDF (roughly 1/2 cost). Of that say I take 75% for a per unit profit of $5.25. To cover expenses I have to sell 304 copies. Although that's less than the 433 needed in a print product, that's a big number for a PDF, especially a PDF adventure.

Of course most people don't pay for writing (they do it themselves) and only pay minimally for art so expenses are really reduced to maybe around $500 for a PDF adventure. That means I'll have to sell 96 PDFs to enter the profit zone. But I wouldn't count that as profit, because I was the writer and I should get paid at least as well as a freelancer would..

I guess my reason is that it's not cheaper because there isn't the volume there to justify a lower cost. Basically, you're only reducing the printing cost while everything else stays the same. You're also reducing your potential sales at the same time however, so it's sort of a trade off.

This is just off the top of my head, and I haven't done any PDF adventures, so maybe one of those guys could give you a better explanation. I'm actually planning on breaking the historic $10 PDF price limit on my next one so I may not be the best one to speak with...

But from the consumer viewpoint, 1/2 price is still good and it comes in a file that can be moved around and uses no physical space. For some DM's this isn't a benefit (they like printed copies), but for other who use their computer, it's a real advantage over non-PDF adventures.

joe b.

 

[pogre]

It's because PDF sales figures are so low. Necromancer Games will sell 1,000 units for a poor-selling product. A PDF publisher is lucky to hit 80 units. Given that layout, art, editing etc. costs are, as you say, a constant for both types of publisher, a PDF has to be priced higher just to break even. 80 vs. 1000-4000 is a vast, vast difference, even taking into account printing costs.

You might suggest that by reducing the price, more units will be sold. Experimentation shows that that is not the case, and doing so results in the publisher paying for the privilage of selling you a product, rather that making a profit from it. Even at these prices, most PDF publishers literally scrape by, and many lose money fairly constantly.

Totally explains it. Thank you very much.

 

[jmucchiello]

Hey, Morrus, this is practically a FAQ for this forum. Perhaps you could clean up the title of this thread and make it sticky? You and Joe seem to have covered the bases.

 

[pogre]

PDFs are a cheaper alternative. In your example they are $6-$7 vrs the $12-15 you expect for a book of the same size. That's roughly 1/2 price--which is what PDF's are usually around.

But from the consumer viewpoint, 1/2 price is still good and it comes in a file that can be moved around and uses no physical space. For some DM's this isn't a benefit (they like printed copies), but for other who use their computer, it's a real advantage over non-PDF adventures.

joe b.

You make an excellent point - 1/2 price is a good deal, especially for those who like electronic documents over print.

Naturally, I was looking at it from the perspective of the creator's bottom line. I had not considered PDF's limited market and it's effect on price.

Morrus took away an assumption that I made:
lower price = more sales
I trust him when he states this does not hold water, and certainly makes me realize why many of my points were erroneous.

For me as a consumer then - PDFs are really an alternative for people who prefer electronic format and not a truly cheaper way to buy stuff. I'm one of those crusty print stuff out guys. It looks to me like I'm not really the intended market for PDFs anyway.

 

[RangerWickett]

Everyone should be the target audience for pdfs. They're cheaper than print books, especially if you buy the larger products. Sure, $7 for an adventure might seem like a bit much, but what about $8 for a 100 page sourcebook? Normally it might be $17 to $20 for a full print version, and having a pdf gives you the ability to scan the text more easily through bookmarks, to copy and paste text into your own notes, and to keep backup copies in case your printout gets eaten, flooded, or set on fire.

To be fair, though, the worst that's ever happened to one of my books is that I carried a PHB around in a backpack at GenCon too long, and the pages fell out of the cover. I've never suffered pyromancy against my gamebooks.

Still, if the topic of the book interests you, buy the pdf, even if you may be a little hesitant. If the company sells well enough, they may be willing to try print runs in the future, and your support now could help them produce the print books you want to see.

 

[trancejeremy]

The best source for cheap adventures is ebay. I recently got 6 Necromancer games adventures there for $37 (plus another d20 adventure, plus a full blown RPG. Albeit a weird one).

For people like me, who are on limited budgets, getting a lot of value for the money is important. PDFs are generally a very poor value vs. a book on ebay. Many times the things on ebay aren't even used, but simply unsold retailer copies.

 

[jmucchiello]

For people like me, who are on limited budgets, getting a lot of value for the money is important. PDFs are generally a very poor value vs. a book on ebay. Many times the things on ebay aren't even used, but simply unsold retailer copies.

Are you saying PDFs should be priced competitively against Ebay auctions? That's impossible.

Ebay sales are not sales for the print publisher. either. Had you purchased a PDF alternative instead of secondary market necromancer adventure, that would have put more money into the RPG market. I'm not saying it's your job to bolster the RPG market, I'm just informing you that there is a difference between who's getting the money.

 

[pogre]

I think TranceJeremy (and I hesitate to put words in anyone's mouth) is just steering me towards a possible source of cheap adventures. I appreciate the thought TJ - thank you.

RangerWickett makes another excellent point about source books. They are quite a bargain. For me, however, I just buy adventures and the very occasional "flavor" book. I have purchased two source books on PDF A Magical Medieval Society by Expeditious Retreat and ENWorld's offering Fairs, Taverns, etc . I subsequently bought both offerings in print.

I believe a mega adventure would be well worth purchasing, or even better, a collection of adventures in PDF format.