Enslave Outsider/Elemental Spell
- Thread starter Iron_Chef
- Start date
Greybar
No Trouble at All
(disclaimer)I haven't used the summoning/planar ally spells too much but...
HD seems to be a bad way to do this. Do you think a Pit Fiend is accurately measured by its HD? As compared to an elemental or more crude monster. Look over the devil and demon lists and consider if HD differences model their power differences.
Why not measure by CR?
John
HD seems to be a bad way to do this. Do you think a Pit Fiend is accurately measured by its HD? As compared to an elemental or more crude monster. Look over the devil and demon lists and consider if HD differences model their power differences.
Why not measure by CR?
John
Iron_Chef
First Post
Because you can't trust the CR to be an accurate indicator of the threat a creature poses. The CRs are messed up, as my group is almost always annihilated or has to flee from a single monster (such as a banelar) that is supposed to only use up 25% of our resources.
Last edited:
Greybar
No Trouble at All
But do you seriously think that HD is a *better* measure than CR? I agree that CR has problems sometimes, but HD is just way off. Just to grab the SRD's "D" page and zip around:
Pit Fiend (13 HD, 16 CR)
vs.
Delver (15 HD, 9 CR)
Whoo'd win? [grin]
Tell ya what, I'll advance the Delver to 26HD to make it a clean double of the Pit Fiend. You take the Delver, I'll take the Pit Fiend...
John
Pit Fiend (13 HD, 16 CR)
vs.
Delver (15 HD, 9 CR)
Whoo'd win? [grin]
Tell ya what, I'll advance the Delver to 26HD to make it a clean double of the Pit Fiend. You take the Delver, I'll take the Pit Fiend...
John
Last edited:
Greybar
No Trouble at All
Iron_Chef,
I'd argue that the planar ally is a problem as well, for exactly the Pit Fiend vs. Delver example. However, the GM has a lot of leeway there because the character must bargain with the being summoned. If one of my characters summoned a Delver or a Pit Fiend, I could have the price to be paid vary greatly. That GM safety valve does not appear to exist in these spells.
Simply because the HD is lower doesn't get rid of the problem. Your example mentions a succubus, a classic example of a creature to be bound - 6 HD, CR 9 - with Damage Reduction, Spell Resistance, and a bunch of other goodies. Why summon a fiendish dire wolf (6HD, CR3) instead?
It's your spell, and asking for advice and feedback doesn't mean you have to do what other suggest
However, I'd argue that in playtest you should expect for the characters to seek the most bang for the buck, and will go for the most powerful creatures of the lowest hit die.
John
I'd argue that the planar ally is a problem as well, for exactly the Pit Fiend vs. Delver example. However, the GM has a lot of leeway there because the character must bargain with the being summoned. If one of my characters summoned a Delver or a Pit Fiend, I could have the price to be paid vary greatly. That GM safety valve does not appear to exist in these spells.
Simply because the HD is lower doesn't get rid of the problem. Your example mentions a succubus, a classic example of a creature to be bound - 6 HD, CR 9 - with Damage Reduction, Spell Resistance, and a bunch of other goodies. Why summon a fiendish dire wolf (6HD, CR3) instead?
It's your spell, and asking for advice and feedback doesn't mean you have to do what other suggest
However, I'd argue that in playtest you should expect for the characters to seek the most bang for the buck, and will go for the most powerful creatures of the lowest hit die. John
Similar Threads
