Enterprise 04-16-03

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I might have missed that, if they really explained it somewhere. But it makes no real sense, because Paris was promoted.

In "modern" days there is a reason why certain officers are not promoted: It does cost to much.
(This is especially true for the German Police - if an police officer has some additional education in new police techniques, and is going to be certified for it, there are only a limited number of As (usually none), Bs (very few) and so on... they can distribiute among the officers!)

But there would be no problem to do this in Starfleet, because they don`t need money to pay them (especially not on the Voyager).
And for commanding purposes: there is a difference between rank and position. The Captain of a ship does not need to have the rank "Captain" (we saw this on Deep Space Nine, where Sisko was the longest time "only" Commander), he could be anything from Ensign to Admiral, though their might still be some limitations due to special education for this job.
If Commander Sisko is Captain of the USS Defiant, and Captain Picard beams aboard, Picard does not suddenly become the Captain of the Defiant, and he could not automatically get this position just because he has a higher rank. (But special circumstances might still allow him to overtake control...)

Well, at least that how "modern day" command structures work (though often they use other names for the ranks...)

Well, but this is not the topic of this thread, so back to your regular scheduled Enterprise critics

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Mark]

I might have missed that, if they really explained it somewhere. But it makes no real sense, because Paris was promoted.

And demoted...and promoted again, IIRC. May have something to do with his designation of Helm Officer that allows for him to advance to a certain rank, whereas Kim's situation only allowed for as much as the rank of Ensign. I think there must be a difference in the hierarchy between Helm Officers and Command Officers. Harry took over command during some late shifts, a duty never on Tom's plate no matter what his rank.

In "modern" days there is a reason why certain officers are not promoted: It does cost to much. (This is especially true for the German Police - if an police officer has some additional education in new police techniques, and is going to be certified for it, there are only a limited number of As (usually none), Bs (very few) and so on... they can distribiute among the officers!)

Part of what I said above may speak to this...in regard to education and training differences of Helm Officers and Command Officers.

But there would be no problem to do this in Starfleet, because they don`t need money to pay them (especially not on the Voyager).

As I said, I believe it is a part of the command structure and not a matter of financial consideration, so that doesn't enter into the equation, Voyager or otherwise.

And for commanding purposes: there is a difference between rank and position. The Captain of a ship does not need to have the rank "Captain" (we saw this on Deep Space Nine, where Sisko was the longest time "only" Commander), he could be anything from Ensign to Admiral, though their might still be some limitations due to special education for this job. [/B][/QUOTE]

Highest rank on a space station is Commander, IIRC, and for as long as they had the Defiant at their disposal I believe that whoever ranked highest on board her was considered an acting captain.

If Commander Sisko is Captain of the USS Defiant, and Captain Picard beams aboard, Picard does not suddenly become the Captain of the Defiant, and he could not automatically get this position just because he has a higher rank. (But special circumstances might still allow him to overtake control...)

It's my understanding that a superior officer is always within their rights to take over a command under any circumstances, but is not required to do so. They are allowed to use their own judgment.

Well, at least that how "modern day" command structures work (though often they use other names for the ranks...)

Perhaps, but as noted above, I believe it is more a courtesy to not exercise rank and take over a command unless a tactical or diplomatic situation demands it.

Well, but this is not the topic of this thread, so back to your regular scheduled Enterprise critics

Mustrum Ridcully

True. Perhaps if someone with more knowledge on this wishes they can begin a new thread for further discussion.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

2Mark:
(Too lazy to open another thread for this, just some further comments):
I was in the Bundeswehr (every male between 18 and 27 has to go there in Germany, unless he is physically unable to do it, or declines to do it for moral reasons - in the last case, he has to make "Zivildienst", working on some kind of civil/social job), and as I explained, that`s basically how it really works.
Every few weeks, a soldier has to work as guard at the entrance of the military buildings. While he is there, he can give anyone orders regarding his job of securing the safety there, even if his rank is higher, and the person normally commands this guard. Some people can still give you orders, but that`s not because of their rank but because of their special position ...

As far as I saw it, Kim had no direct superior in his role as - what? Sensor Stations Guy? - so there seems no reason not to promote him - hell, even Wesley Crusher was promoted to Lt. (even if not a "real one", since it was before he was cadet.)
Special education for commanding officers can be made via Holodeck simulations and tests, as we saw in Startrek - The Next Generation. (Deanna wanted to become Commander. It was the episode where Data landed on a more or less primitive planet following a probe and lost his memory. In a side plot, Deanna was tested by Riker in a simulation where she was forced to send an officer into certain death to avoid the destruction of the - simulated - Enterprise)

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Dark Helmet]

On the premise that there were only so many positions of the next higher rank (Lt. j.g., I believe), how many officers were killed in the original pilot and through the subsequent series? Are we to believe Janeway gave all the Lt. j.g. positions to the surviving Maquis crew?

And as for any higher-ranking officer being able to assume command of a starship from it's Captain, from TOS Commodore Decker was only able to assume command of the Enterprise when Kirk was off the ship. Only when Kirk gave a direct order as THE Captain of the Enterprise was Decker forced to give back command.
Also, from the episode when Kirk and the landing party were infected by that aging disease, Commodore Stocker was first required to hold a hearing in order to relieve Kirk and then assume command.
My memory is a little hazy if any similar incidents occured in any of the later series, but it seems to me that a higher-ranking officer is not able to just assume command of the ship, as opposed to the mission, at his whim.

But then again, I have the flu and am not as strong in the Schwartz.

 

[Dark Helmet]

Also, I just remembered. THIS Harry Kim is NOT the ORIGINAL Harry Kim from THIS Voyager , but the Harry Kim from the alternate dimension when the universe fractured. So when THAT Harry Kim died and THIS Harry Kim came to THIS Voyager, he lost the OTHER Harry Kim's seniority.

Is my NyQuil* kicking in yet?


* NyQuil* is a registered trademark of some company or another and use of it's name or drinking of it's product is not an attempt to infringe in copyright. NyQuil* is not OGL approved.

 

[Orius]

Enterprise - Horizon

Mayweather is granted leave to visit his family after the sudden death of his father, a cargo-ship captain. But his return to the old vessel is complicated by family tension. Meanwhile, Archer and Trip invite a reluctant T'Pol to see a movie.

Been a while since we examined Mayweather's former life as trader with his family.

It was a fair episode. Not one I'd consider a personal favorite, but pretty standard Trek fare. They did a fairly good job showing use Travis' family.

The B-plot was great as comic relief. Archer and Trip are both eager to have T'Pol watch Frankenstein with them, but she doesn't really want to. Archer even tries to turn it into a date (let's have dinner and see a movie...). It was even more amusing that Phlox found the movie to be fascinating, while T'Pol wasn't really impressed.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Good point, Dark Helmet, I forgot the episode. (Maybe I should watch the reruns of Voyager... Hmmm. Nah...)
If I don`t forget it again, I will never complain again, because the "non-promotion" of Harry is obviously logical regarding this epsiode and just shows the great and well known inner consistency of Voyager.



Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Mark]

Here's the thread dealing with the original airing of this week's rerun...