ENWorld Advertising

[2WS-Steve]

While this would probably count as a Meta thread I figure it's of enough interest to publishers that it would be worthwhile to post it here.


Some of the problems Morrus mentioned seems to arise from the nature of advertising here. While my experience is a bit out of date, when I did have books in the pipeline I noticed that a month long banner ad generated a strong response -- but not much better than a couple news items. In effect, the tremendous success of the news page undermines the site's ability to sell advertising.

That creates a moral dissonance for everyone involved. Morrus wants to maintain the place as a location for news about gaming, as well as other things, but doing so devalues the very thing that pays for the server. I imagine many good meaning publishers want to support the place with advertising (and certainly have done so in the past) but have a hard time justifying that as a pure business decision.

Since people are much happier and the world is a better place when business interests coincide with our better natures, I figure a good solution would be to make the advertising sufficiently effective that it gets publishers clamoring for ad space.

Steve Trustrum apparently has some suggestions for this, so those might be worth looking at. Also, I imagine publishers have some of their own ideas about what they'd want to see in terms of advertising options--and hopefully they'll make some suggestions here.

I'm certainly no expert, but I'll blather on anyway.

First, the banner ads strike me as too small. Any other site that provides content as valuable as this has much larger, and often more elaborate banners--Yahoo, Weather.com, news sites, and so on. As a fan, it wouldn't bother me at all if you made the banners larger, or allowed more elaborate features in them.

Also, given the way browsers work, banner ads at the top can get scrolled off the screen pretty easily in a visit. Perhaps banners that stretch vertically along the right side would be more effective. I'm sure there's extensive research on this available somewhere though and I know I'm often surprised by what works in advertising and what doesn't.

Some publishers don't know how to put an ad together. I've seen more than a few ads that give me no idea about what they're selling, and some that have to scroll through too long an animation before I figure out what's going on. An article here with some basics of advertising via banner would probably help out those people unfamiliar with the process. For what it's worth, the simplicity of the DriveThruRPG ad has been particularly effective in getting me to click on it.

The front page center Dunjinni ad has been particularly effective on me as well. I notice it all the time and feel my will weakening daily.


Finally, as a fan, advertising on ENWorld isn't even a burden. I love seeing what various publishers and people around the net have in the pipeline. I enjoy reading the ads in Dragon and Dungeon. Given the sheer number of visitors to this site, and the number of distinct visitors all of whom have an interest in precisely what d20 publishers sell, there must be some way to make the advertising here something that will satisfy everyone involved.

 

[Warden]

I agree with the Dundjinni ad, it's very effective where it's positioned, but it's very likely that mucho deniro was given for that.

Perhaps instead of banners, there could be a rotation of product spotlights on the main page. If you have a particular product that you want to advertise, you pay to have a small, self-written spotlight that features a cover. The more you pay, the longer it stays up and the more frequent it's shown.

I know that I've found banner ads to be useful in creating click-throughs in a hurry, but it's expensive for a little PDF publisher as ourselves to stay on long enough to turn those click-throughs into sales. If the consumer-in-waiting could read a little something before clicking for more info, that could make them more beneficial.

 

[Morrus]

As examples of ads that have worked really well, here are the successful ones (i.e. high click-thru percentage) from the current roster. You may be able to draw some conclusions as to why these banners, in particular, are getting clicked on more than the others. That may be due to the ad design itself, or to the nature of the product advertised; or, likely, a combination of the two.

Number 1 - the most successful of the current ads running is the Advancing Hordes ad:

The second most successful is Battleon.com:

Third is one of Fluid's banners (they have three running simultaneously, but this one is, by far, doing better than the other two):

 

[Warden]

Two thoughts on those banners:

1. Content -- the first one offers unique dice, and offering unique dice to gamers is like waving a gold chain in front of a pimp; the second offers something for free; and the finally Dundjinni banner tells us that we can all have wicked maps that look hand painted and professional. So I can see these three having high click-throughs.

2. Frequency -- in all truth, these are the only banners I've seen for a while. In fact, the Adventure Quest banner is on the top of the screen as I type this reply. I can't recall seeing any other banner for a while now, so I'm sure that helps the click-through rate as well.

The only one that I have checked out, however, is Dundjinni, but it wasn't through the banner -- it was the squared panel on the top of the news page that made me check it out. Much more information immediately at my disposal so that I could make a conscious decision on the product BEFORE clicking on it for more.

 

[philreed]

One thing that could be useful is a separate page that shows all current banners. Maybe a link right under the banner on each page that says "See All Banners." Then those interested in the banners could check the special page once a month.

 

[taotad]

Maybe do it like Salon.com?

Forcing a commercial on people once a week, and let paying members pass?

Its a little pushy, but I'm sure people would understand if you told them nicely why it had to be done.

+

 

[BSF]

I'm not sure how a current ads link would work in relation to the # of impressions model that Morrus currently has. But if that is not a hurdle, it might be an interesting option.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but I will mention it again. Banner ads are still effective to me even if I never click on them. Especially for folks that I recognize as being a board presence. I will choose to use Wulf Ratbane as an example, I hope he doesn't mind. Benjamin is a visible presence and he helps to keep Bad Axe games as a publisher in my mind. When the Grim Tales banner ads started appearing, I associated the book with Bad Axe games and with Benjamin. I also knew that I should be looking for it. It was past the point of being an upcoming product and had moved to the point where I could move it to my to-buy list.

I don't think I ever clicked on the banner, but the banner was effective about keeping Grim Tales in my customer mind.

I know budgets are tight. I know it is probably very difficult for some people to make advertising decisions and feel like they were the right decisions if you cannot directly track sales from the ads. But I think you need to keep in mind your entire presence as part of your marketing engine.

Last year when EN World was in danger of disappearing, I know Bad Axe games helped out. I will be honest. I was surprised that they did that. I don't know what kind of profit they make, but I don't imagine that Benjamin, or any of the folks at Bad Axe games, are overnight millionaires from the books they put out. That made a favorable impression on me and I like to toss a little business at Bad Axe if I can. When I am looking at two books that have the same potential value to my game, I will more likely choose one the one that is from somebody I know.

I no longer check the news page every day. I go to the forums first and when I am all caught up, and have time and curiosity, I go to the news page. The banner ads are the first thing I see. The posts from publishers are things I see in threads. The news items are often worth checking out with a click. But when my time is short, I am likely to focus on something I saw in all three places rather than one or two.

Give me clear ads (as opposed to ambiguous ads) and keep your company in my mind and you will be more likely to have me buy your books.

Yeah, this post is not terribly useful to all of you. But I will keep checking the thread and if I see something that strikes me as likely to grab my attention, I will pipe up. I don't need your products, I want them. So if I can help tell you what I think will help grab my attention, I am happy to do so.

PS - Hey guys, remember I said I was picking on Wulf Ratbane. There were a lot of companies that stepped up to help EN World out. Don't think it didn't make an impression on me. I'm just one guy, but I try to buy your stuff when it fits in with what I need, or when I am just looking to pick up more gaming stuff.

EDIT: Spelling and a postscript.

 

[Roudi]

I like Philip Reed's idea - a "Show All Banners" option. It would have the added benefit of providing Advertisers with evidence that their banners are indeed included in the current run. However, you'd have to work out whether accessing this uberlist of banners counts as an ad impression or not.

I say this because, as an advertisier, I've paid $9.99 for 10k ad impressions and have not once seen my banner up over ENWorld or received e-mail confirmation that it is indeed up. I would at least like to know whether I'm getting what I paid for or not.

 

[Dextra]

I'd just like to echo BardStephenFox's comments about advertising here, in that I have never bought anything from clicking through on an ad. However, it has helped keep me apprised of new products.
Heck, that Dundjinni ad on the front page actually made me stop by their booth at GenCon. Without that ad, I never would've given them a second look.

As someone who placed ads in newspapers for years for another business, I can understand the publishers' frustrations with regards to perceived value received. More than once I had a client come in and ask why I stopped advertising in such-and-such a newspaper or magazine, because they had a hard time finding me once they'd made up their mind. Twas a rare instance indeed when someone would actually say that the reason they came in was due to any ad I bought- usually it was attributed to word of mouth.

Times are tight, and people need to make some tough choices about where their marketing money works best.

Sorry, I digress.

I agree with 2WS that front page mention on ENWorld worked absolute wonders for Ambient Inc.'s sales. Granted, we never bought a banner ad, but wow, you could count on an extra 10-50 sales/day you were on the front page! Then again, we also only sold PDFs, so it was a lot easier for people to buy immediately, so I wonder how many people see an ad, then file it away mentally for another day's purchase.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

Steve Trustrum apparently has some suggestions for this, so those might be worth looking at. Also, I imagine publishers have some of their own ideas about what they'd want to see in terms of advertising options--and hopefully they'll make some suggestions here.

I'll restate them here, just to keep people from having to search through that other thread to find where they were scattered:

1) a hidden forum that only ENWorld staff and advertisers can go to discuss things. A place to bang heads behind closde doors and brainstorm collective ideas.

2) Add new and varied advertising packages. Right now the current maximum bannersize and memory allotment are the same for each package. Change them up a bit, especially the 30k limit, to allow for greater flexibility. Price the packages to reflect the changes (more bandwidth for >30k = more money, for example) to allow clients a chance to ponder which choices would work best for them.

3) Offer the chance to price based on ad location. I don't know if WotC pays advertising for the section taken up with the WotC Release Schedule or if that's an aspect of the fan site perspective based on "hey, there the big boys on the block so of course we list their schedule," but that's prime advertising space. Instead of a banner ad, offer a package that allows something like what appears in the WotC release schedule: a certain amount of impressions for a specific product ad, displaying the product's cover. Put it in the opposite margin. It's a great opportunity for companies to advertise specific releases instead of merely announcing them for free on the publisher boards.

4) offer a redirect page. Using Misfit Studios as an example, I have a HUGE bandwidth allotment at my site. I barely scratch it. I could host wonderful ads for my company, but the only people who would see it are the people already visiting it. However, if ENWorld offered to sell me the visual space on their site, while I hosted it myself, that would be of tremendous value to me, and it would also cut down on ENWorld's used resources because I'd be the one worrying about bandwidth and storage. Just add a clause about ENWorld not being responsible for the customer's failure to account for their own provider's bandwidth restrictions and possible downtime and you've got a nice advertising option here.

5) offer an option for front page advertising. I imagine it's the more desirable location, so if someone wants their ad to show there and only there allow them that option but increase the cost as a result. It's like paying more to have the exact same billboard displayed at Times Square and having it on route 66, out by a chicken farm.

Also, given the way browsers work, banner ads at the top can get scrolled off the screen pretty easily in a visit. Perhaps banners that stretch vertically along the right side would be more effective. I'm sure there's extensive research on this available somewhere though and I know I'm often surprised by what works in advertising and what doesn't.

Such an ads success depends on where it's located. If on the front page, yeah, that would be a good idea. On a forum it can cause problems because if one person pays for a banner ad, the viewer refreshes and now they've got a side ad, they viewer has to wait while the forums repaginate and adjust. That gets annoying real fast and didn't work out at all well when RPG.net experimented with such a thing on their site. The outcry was tremendous.

Some publishers don't know how to put an ad together. I've seen more than a few ads that give me no idea about what they're selling, and some that have to scroll through too long an animation before I figure out what's going on. An article here with some basics of advertising via banner would probably help out those people unfamiliar with the process. For what it's worth, the simplicity of the DriveThruRPG ad has been particularly effective in getting me to click on it.

Absolutely. Morrus provides some examples earlier, so why not ask if it's okay to include some of the more effective ads in a ... promotional kit ... for lack of a better term. Either Morrus or someone else can write up a brief blurb on why each has worked and what general trends have not been working for other ads. Such things are normal as a part of customer service and is also a good selling point if ENWorld offers such a thing and other sites don't.

As for the DriveThruRPG ad, I've found the opposite of you. What draws me is an interest in the logos of the participating company and the newness of the services offered. The ad in and of itself is not well designed. So much whitespace doesn't tend to work and normally only proves effective when contrasted against accompanying ads of the extreme opposite design. Ads have to catch the eye and a plain white background with lettering doesn't tend to do that. I'd wager that once DTRPG has been around longer you'll see some changes to those banners if they want people to keep clicking.

On the other hand, some of the ones Morrus posted are very well done. They have good eye flow and interesting imagery. The trick is providing those elements without appearing to try and cram too much into the limited space otherwise nobody will look because their eyes won't know what they're supposed to be looking at.

The front page center Dunjinni ad has been particularly effective on me as well. I notice it all the time and feel my will weakening daily.

Yeah, that's is a very well designed ad, in my opinion. I always come here through the front page and every time my eye gets drawn to it, even though I've already seen it so much.