Epic campaign is stalled, HALP!

[Gwarok]

I'm running a campaign thats been going on for awhile now. I have 2 players(Thom -Sorc 23, Domingo - Rogue 24) and I have about 3 different story arcs that I can't quite seem to get the players into solving or working on. Also, I'm sorta stuck on how much to push them and how much to let them figure out on their own. Copious campaign background to follow:

3 Cities Campaign - Players centered around Stein, the eastern most of 3 large city states that have been established over the centuries as the overall capital, Carnasis, expanded eastward. All the rulers of the various cities are descended from the Haustein clan of Carnasis. To the north are mountains and a large icy plateau, populated by dwarves and other hardy folk. Orcs, barbarians, giants, dragons, you get the idea. East of Stein you have forests of elves and other fey. To the south is a tremendous desert/badlands area populated by barbarians as well, in loose but numerous clans. Also far to the south and along the western coast is the City of Ur-Domen ruled by a quasi deity god emperor. Ur-domen is a vast city, and is LE and venerates Hextor. They don't exactly rule their neighbors as much as demand a hefty tribute from them. Aside form that Ur-domen has stayed pretty much to itself over the course of the campaign.

Ancient History - No records go back farther than 1000 years into the past. In this prehistoric era men, elves and dwarves were very much superior to what they are now. Each had a huge and powerful empire and peace largely ruled the land. This is your proto-typical golden age. Along came Erythuul to mess things up. He sent the first dragon, his son, to meet with the ancient peoples. This dragon was a demigod due to his divine parentage and at first got along well with the other races. For a few thousand years they taught eachother new things and all was well.

This was just a ruse however. The dragon secretly promoted the worship of Erythuul while it learned all it could about the land and the other races. Eventually it mades its move, cults of chaos sprang up, alliances were shattered, and the dragon started a war calling hosts of worshippers to its banner. This war was so destructive that all the civilizations were almost totally wiped out. However, the races combined were able to destroy the dragon's armies if only just. The dragon however was a demigod and could not be slain by mortals, so they decided to capture him. The dwarves built a mountain to imprison him, humans forged a chain to bind him, and the elves wrought magic to hide the prison and make the dragon slumber, wary that its waking thought alone would provoke more chaos.

The races then decided to destroy any and all records of the war so that none would ever know of the dragons existence and imprisonment. But the elves went a step farther and their 100 most powerful wizards cast a spell powerful enough to wipe the minds of all living creatures. Most of them died fromt the backlash of the spell, the rest were cursed with dementia and wander the ancient woods as forest wraiths. Theys spew magics randomly and even the elves avoid them. Fortunately the forest wraiths tend to rarely appear.

A keeper of the age known only as the Blue Wizard had warned both the humans and the dwarves of what was coming. Knowing that the elves rarely change course once they make a decision, the humans took what was left of their knowledge and sealed it in a necropolis city that was put in a temporal stasis and hidden from the eyes of men. Their oracle had told them one would come to unseal the city in the future and bring back the knowledge when the world needed it.

The dwarves pleaded with the elvish nation to forgoe the spell and trust to common sense to keep the dragon hidden, but the elves went ahead and cast the spell anyways. This left the remains of the races in a shattered world with basically total amnesia. The dwarves had a lingering racial awareness that the elves had done them wrong, and shortly afterwards went to war with the elves, with the humans splitting up and taking sides as they saw fit. What ensued was about 200 years of on again off again wars and a horrible dark age. Eventually things calmed down and civilization began to form again, which brings us to the current age.

Our heroes have three story lines going atm. First, the dragon has been released and is growing stronger in the north. The PC's are aware of this. They have staved off the first assault, but later learned that the dragon only wanted dead people to capture their souls for fueling epic casting. He was happy no matter who died, orc minions or good guys. The dragon is leading armies of orcs, evil humans, and half-dragon men. They have some powerful casters, and I really want to work in a Chaos Theme to this. The PC's don't know what to do and are scared to even go up there or investigate.

Second story line involves the dark elves. They were ancient allies of The Dragon, and led by an evil queen Xanaphia high priestess of the spider godess. When they were chased into the underdark at the conclusion of the ancient war Lolth put a guardian to the underdark realm of a really huge fiendish spider creature. The elves basically couldnt' go down, the drow couldn't come up. Xanaphia established her realm in force during the last 1000 years and was doing quite well until recently. A large mind flayer incursion cost her the lower halls of her city. Fearing the mental powers of the Flayers Xanaphia took the step of becoming a Lich after all these years rendering her immune to all sorts of things the mind flayers like to employ. The PC's were on the hunt for an artifact, cut a deal with her, slew a buttload of mind flayers and their Epic monster leader. However they also then promptly stole the entire treasury of the lower halls ensuring Xanaphia's wrath. The PC's were wise in this as she was going to kill them anyways.

Since attaining her newfound state as a lich, Xanaphia has forsaken Llolth and been successfully wooed by Orcus. Orcus has granted her the ability to get to the surface world again, and also has provided her with the knowledge to transcend to Demilich status. I haven't decided those steps will be, but I'd like the PC's to stop her. Trouble is getting them to even know what she's up to. Should she become a demilich, she'd most likely be able to stomp the heroes to dust for the foreseeable future. Right now she's a 25th level Priest Drow Lich.

Next story line involves Thom's archrival Thanok(Wizard 24th). He is from the barbarian badlands in the south, has dueled Thom on several occasions, and once organized about 80,000 of the tribesmen in the south to attack the city of Stein. He's been a great badguy, master of werewolves and beasts, and plays a wizard to Thom's sorceror so I get to really have have them duke it out sometimes. Last we saw of him he had disappeared into the Far Realms on a crazed quest for power. I wanted maybe for him to come back with a Pseudonatural Template, of perhaps have his personality shattered as well, with perhaps a "good" Thanok coming back to warn of the impending return of the Epic Pseudonatural Thanok trying to get back into this world. Thanok also had 9 apprentices that were all clones of him at 20th(i.e. 10th level Thanoks), they were useful as messengers and to bolster the boss during sticky situations, and of course to take that Disintegrate to make us think the real one had died.

Also, the ancient necropolis has been uncovered by the PC's. The sorceror was sorta a treasure hunter type guy but that changed into more of a portable artillery guy. Thom has left it guarded by a Planetar and a Dominated evil titan that used to guard it from all intruders. The massive library he has done nothing with, but my intention was for the knowledge to be dispersed and the current people to rapidly regain the power and glory of the old days for the battle to come. I think they've been back once to the joint, lol. I've sorta styled the ancient humans after the egyptians, with Pelor being much more of a fierce sun god back then than the hippie healing god he has become in these days.

Domingo is actually a resuced spirit. He used to live in the old days and was the greatest assasin before and during The War. He died at the hands of the dragon, spent 1000 years doing penance for his crimes in the Abyss, and was rescued by Thom on a jaunt down there. His player is incredibly bloodthirsty, altho with a good streak to him. But put him anywhere near an enemy to stick a dagger into and he's going to do it.

Anyways, that the campaign as it stands. Looking for any advice on how to move forward. Thom is not as curious as I'd like, and domingo keeps killing people I want him to talk to. Should I just cater to that and line up the big fights? Thanks for reading.

 

[Nyeshet]

I'd first ask, what are their interests, their motivations, their current goals (personal and as a party)?

For second considerations:

You said they were afraid to consider dealing with the dragon, and they have learned that any battle that occurs will only empower it - even if its own forces are overwhelmingly lost, as it is souls the dragon is interested in, not victories, etc (for the present).

What if some clue came from the north, suggesting that the dragon had risen before? The necropolis and its library are probably known to the players as being amongst the most ancient ruins they have ever encountered, so perhaps they might think to look there. Obviously, the clue should come via a friend or agent of theirs, perhaps a high-ranking individual from the northern territories where incursions, raids, scouting parties, etc occur more often (than further south). Also, as a side question - have they told anyone of their discovery of the necropolis? Perhaps another might make the connection and request permission to look through its libraries?

As for the Drow Lich, is she now wandering the surface world? Could she be looking for the necropolis and its vast collection of ancient / potent knowledge (perhaps to re-invigorate her drow before the elves are similarly re-invigorated should the knowledge go public)? If she attacks the two protectors of the necropolis, perhaps the sorcerer would receive a warning from them. A meeting between the two PCs and the drow lich - even if she escapes - might allow a few clues to slip out during the combat (re: she now follows orcus, she intends to soon become far more powerful than a mere lich, etc). Perhaps orcus has left out some bits of knowledge on how to become a demilich - either to test her or for his own amusement - or to force her to seek out and find / steal some artifact or bit of ancient knowledge that could prove useful to him.

As I recall (and it's been a while since I last used that pantheon), Erythuul is a deity of death, slaughter, etc. Is there any connection (in your campaign world and specifically its ancient history) between this deity and the others mentioned (demi-deity dragon, quasi-deity emperor, archdemon orcus, lolth, etc)? For instance, Lolth has lost the worship of the drow. Could she be in (temporary) alliance with the dragon or its father? What of the quasi-deity to the south? While he is LE and the dragon is probably CE, I can't imagine that the dragon would not have secretly sent emisaries south to try to convince the emperor to either stay out of the coming conflict or to join with him - crushing the non-evils in between the two of them. True, the dragon would certainly betray him, but I can see the LE quasi deity emperor being convinced or bribed to stay out for now.

As for the third plot path, at present it seems secondary. The Far Realms do not necessarily run on normal time. It could be hundreds of years before their foe returns - or perhaps he already did, arriving in the ancient past and aiding one side or the other during the epic battle(s). He can be dealt with after the other two points are dealt with.

As mentioned, I think the use of NPCs to put together a few of the clues (leaving the rest for the PCs to work out) could be useful. So too could be using encounters to re-focus attention on core concerns. Suppose the lich tries to enter the necropolis but is forced away. Suppose this happens 2-3 times in different ways. She never succeeds, but her attempts should encourage the PCs to wonder why she is attempting it so stringently. Perhaps they will realize the importance they overlooked?

 

[Gwarok]

Good ideas

Well the goals of the PC's is hard to pin down. They're basically up for anything, although they don't have anything specific they are trying to do. I was hoping now they have all this power and influence they might take a more active role in the things that go on in the world but I might be expecting them to do things as I would which has me worried I'm on the wrong track. Thom seems to want to just become more powerful, and maybe start an academy of magic which I'm not sure how to go about running. Seems like a heavy administrative thing to do. Domingo wants to regain his rep as the greatest assasin in the land. To this end he's gone about setting up a thieves guild in Stein and controls the gambling and some rackets involving trade skimming. A bit beneath him in my opinion but he seems to have a lot of fun doing it. I've actually set up an NPC named Adam Cross who is actually a Pit Fiend possesing a man. Cross has insinuated himself with the big merchant houses of Stein but is totally corrupt, and has had many dealing with Domingo. His ultimate purpose is to corrupt domingo and bring him back to evil ways so as to get his soul. Thats actually been kinda fun, but that when we run solo adventures when Thom's player can't make it.

Actually the dragon is connected to Erythuul, he's the scion of Eyrthuul specifically. The PC's are aware that he has risen before and generally speaking what his intentions are. After that last adventure the dragon did capture roughly 50,000 souls which equates to 500,000 xp for the casting of Epic spells. We'll see what to do with that. I wanted him to have a cadre of high level orc shamans and warlock types, but its all a bit fuzzy at this point. One thing I really wanted to do was have a war between the dragons and the Emperor of Ur-Domen. I wanted it to be more focused on Chaos vs. Law than good vs. evil. With the 3 cities caught in between. The Chaos is the big thing, with him trying to draw in forces from Limbo as well.

I do like your idea that Xanaphia doesn't know exactly how to become a Demilich yet and has to raid the necropolis for that information. That would be a sweet way to have her intentions be revealed. She doesn't really wander the surface, as she is still queen of the drow. Plus the drow actually still remmber alot of what happned before. When they were sealed in the underdark Lloths protection prevented the spell of forgetfullness from reaching them. However the population of the drow was always a bit small. Several thousand at most, but they were all pretty powerful and used summoned creatures and slaves for labor mostly. She is currently putting down a small rebellion of those still worshipping Lloth but its mostly crushed and a few survivors now hide deep in the underdark, below the halls of the drow queen. The main thing the drow DON'T have is arcane casters. They have a few, but mostly conjurer types, and specifically lack abjuration, as the priest order didn't want them immune to any of their divine spells and could more easily maintain control.

I will keep the Far Realms/Thanok arc in on the back burner for now. Thank you the feedback.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Well the goals of the PC's is hard to pin down. They're basically up for anything, although they don't have anything specific they are trying to do. I was hoping now they have all this power and influence they might take a more active role in the things that go on in the world but I might be expecting them to do things as I would which has me worried I'm on the wrong track. Thom seems to want to just become more powerful, and maybe start an academy of magic which I'm not sure how to go about running. Seems like a heavy administrative thing to do. Domingo wants to regain his rep as the greatest assasin in the land. To this end he's gone about setting up a thieves guild in Stein and controls the gambling and some rackets involving trade skimming. A bit beneath him in my opinion but he seems to have a lot of fun doing it.

I would suggest that you "hook" the characters into your plots with some motivation and relevant scenes.

1. Analysis of the Current Situation: For both of them, you have some decent long-term goals: Thom wants to found and academy of magic and Domingo wants to become the greatest assassin in the land. Domingo also has an entertaining side business that might lead toward his goal. It's a good start. I noticed that the first question Nyeshet asked was about the players' goals. You can't get where you want to be if you don't know where you are going; the more clearly defined you have the players' goals, the easier it will be to hook them into your game.

2. Motivation of the Players:
2A. Thomas's motivation is not spelled out. If you (and the players) aren't exactly sure what their characters want, you could brainstorm some goals for them, both short-term and long-term. Why does Thomas want to start an academy? Does he want to become famous? Does he want to have an 'army' of sorcerers/wizards at his command? Does he want to collect enough magical knowledge to destroy his rival? Learning why he wants what he wants is absolutely critical to determining what to do next.

2B. Domingo wants to become the greatest assassin in the land. You do know a little more about him than you know about Thomas, however. You know that Domingo enjoys running the thieves guild. Again, ask the player "Why." Why does he like running the gambling and racketeering? Does he enjoy feeling superior? Does he like making the money? Is he thrilled by the illegality of it? Learning more will enable you to start putting obstacles and opportunities in his path toward accomplishing that.

Take some time and ask the players to define their characters' motivations more clearly. Ask them questions about their long-term goals (Magic Academy and Greatest Assassin). Ask them why they want what they want. Then have them write down some possible short-term goals that might (or might not) build toward their long-term goals. Get inside their heads and find out what makes them tick.

3. Relevant Scenes:
After you have gathered your data, work out some possible steps of how the players' goals could interact with your plotlines. However, be warned that they might not intersect at all. You will probably have to tweak your plots to fit them to the players' desires. For example, I would think that getting Domingo to identify Xanaphia or the Dragon as the ultimate challenge to assassinate would be a step in the right direction. Ordinary assassins kill nobles, powerful wizards, even kings. Only the greatest assassins could ever kill a god/lich/dragon.

That's my two cents. I hope it helps. Please let us know how things develop.

--TC

 

[the Jester]

Hey Gwarok!

I run a mad epic campaign myself and have come to realize that, rather than planning things for the pcs, I have to try to predict what they will do. Typically, an epic party can pretty much go wherever they want pretty much whenever they want. So I find myself being much more responsive rather than directive, if you know what I mean.

I'd find out what the pcs actually want to do- what their goals are- and see how they can work towards them.

 

[Gwarok]

et...

TC: Great stuff there. I'll definitely have a sit down with the guys and dig a bit deeper into whats making them tick.

Jester: I've run into the same thing. I tend to use pretty free form adventures and try to expect the unexpected. The ability to go wherever whenever is really challenging to DM, but yea I know what you're talking about.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Gwarok, how is it going? What's happened? Please give us an update.