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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ginnel" data-source="post: 4402547" data-attributes="member: 66058">A point was made by Imaro [EDIT!!: that some people mention a blandness in 4th editon and a lack of that adrenaline surge][Original content edited out] I'm not sure what their experience has been of 4th edition, But our party of 6 has been in a few dire situations, cornered from both sides in a cave 2 of our party on the floor dying, 3 of the other 4 bloodied with the main bad guy still standing, a role of natural 20 got the cleric back up and helped change the tide of battle again. Before this fight we walked through about 12 enemies but two tried to flee leading to a dramatic attempt by 3 of the party to stop it getting to others of its kind. Another encounter where we were ambushed exploring some wagons ended up with my character on -4 hits with 5 ongoing damage, a character appropriately enough my characters half brother ran over to do a heal check and failed, burned an action point to try it again and suceeded, also at the end of the fight one of the last enemies we were fighting exploded in a fit of arcane energy nearly taking out a considerable portion of the party. A third example, our well wounded paladin 0 healing surges and half hits, got taken out as he opened a door and fell to the floor the offending creature drawing his sword and threatening to kill him, a no surrender attitude from certain members of the party rushed in to him and pushed him away from our fallen comrade. I felt all of these encounters had plenty enough tension in them due to the combat aspect, and fail to see how a save or die roll could have injected more, I personally feel that Save or Die or Save or Sit Out effects are akin to a reverse lottery ticket, there is no elation just a moan of oh dam I rolled low.I love Roleplaying games I get to do these 3 times a week but still would be put out if one roll of the die decided on my fun for the evening, I don't get the excitement of it. Now other people may well enjoy Save or Die effects and similar abilities but I know myself I can not condone a single die roll having such a big effect, it would be like a DM putting in a skill check in the adventure which they have to pass to survive DM: Guys make spot checks*hurried rolls*"10""13""17""33""4" DM: Ok Guys the floor opens up underneath you anyone with higher than 20 manages to spot it and jumps to the side, the rest of you as you fall into a void your bodies disintigrate, new Character time.*players glare* Now just because the actual save or die/save or sit out effects happen in combat doesn't make it more exciting for me.</blockquote>

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