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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4407764" data-attributes="member: 22779">This topic always revolves around the same basic point.&nbsp; That somehow removing Save or Die means that you are removing death from the table.&nbsp; That's simply not true.&nbsp; You are removing ONE method of death, sure, but, death is still very much on the table.Take it a different route for a second.&nbsp; I'll create a creature that does PC HP's+11 every time it hits.&nbsp; It gets one attack per PC every round.&nbsp; I don't think anyone would consider this to be a well designed creature.&nbsp; It's ridiculous and it wouldn't be any fun to use or face.&nbsp; Poof, you die.&nbsp; Wiff, you live.But, that's exactly what save or die is, only the player rolls his save rather than the DM rolling an attack.&nbsp; Heck, my creature would be less dangerous to the fighter types than most SoD creatures.&nbsp; At least you could bump your AC up and make it virtually impossible to be hit.The monster would still suck.&nbsp; Because it completely breaks how monsters are designed in D&amp;D.&nbsp; That's not how monsters work.&nbsp; We don't want monsters that are that lethal in the game, it's too hard to use them.That's why I hate SoD monsters.&nbsp; It's not really Save or Die.&nbsp; It's just die.&nbsp; SOMEONE is going to fail a saving throw.&nbsp; Doesn't matter how careful you are, doesn't matter how tactical you are, doesn't matter what preparations you make.&nbsp; You just die.&nbsp; All because of a bad roll.And this is fun?I always thought fun was actually playing the game.&nbsp; Yeah, PC's die.&nbsp; But, it shouldn't be because I rolled one bad roll and then get to sit on my hands for the next hour or so.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 4407764, member: 22779"] This topic always revolves around the same basic point. That somehow removing Save or Die means that you are removing death from the table. That's simply not true. You are removing ONE method of death, sure, but, death is still very much on the table. Take it a different route for a second. I'll create a creature that does PC HP's+11 every time it hits. It gets one attack per PC every round. I don't think anyone would consider this to be a well designed creature. It's ridiculous and it wouldn't be any fun to use or face. Poof, you die. Wiff, you live. But, that's exactly what save or die is, only the player rolls his save rather than the DM rolling an attack. Heck, my creature would be less dangerous to the fighter types than most SoD creatures. At least you could bump your AC up and make it virtually impossible to be hit. The monster would still suck. Because it completely breaks how monsters are designed in D&D. That's not how monsters work. We don't want monsters that are that lethal in the game, it's too hard to use them. That's why I hate SoD monsters. It's not really Save or Die. It's just die. SOMEONE is going to fail a saving throw. Doesn't matter how careful you are, doesn't matter how tactical you are, doesn't matter what preparations you make. You just die. All because of a bad roll. And this is fun? I always thought fun was actually playing the game. Yeah, PC's die. But, it shouldn't be because I rolled one bad roll and then get to sit on my hands for the next hour or so. [/QUOTE]

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