Epic Level more popular than Psionics?

[DragonLancer]

Personally I don't like the Epic rules presented in the ELH. If you hit 21st+ then just play with the rules in th core books. The Epic rules were clunky and extremely twinky after a point.

Psionics are far more interesting if people would give them a chance. I'd much rather that Psionic scenarios were included in Dungeon than Epic.

 

[Voadam]

I'd prefer to see more epic adventures made.

Psionic monsters or NPCs can be added into any adventure fairly easily. I'm swapping out a duergar monk and replacing her with a duergar psi warrior in a module I'm running and I've thrown in summoned psionic demons into a side quest in demon god's fane. Psionic players can play in any game. Having specifically psionic NPCs or monsters in an adventure is not that big a deal and doesn't fill that much of a need.

Any character class can play in any adventure of the right level. Saying you want more psionic adventures is like saying you want more bard adventures, just a request for an adventure theme. There are many adventures where a bard or psionic character would be well suited to the adventure. Saying you want epic adventures means you want adventures for the epic level range. A resource that is severely lacking.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not both?

Dungeon, being a regularly produced magazine, can do several things here. They are having these uber-adventure paths, and they are also having small adventure paths. Why not have an adventure path or one-shot adventure for epic rules one time, then one for psionics fans another time?

Since they have multiple adventures per issue, they can afford to have something more mainstreamed for most of the book, then something more specialized in the rest. You can then expand this one specialized adventure per issue to include other elements, such as incarnum, a weapon of legacy, and so forth.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Dragon/Dungeon magazine.

Hi all!

One of the recent polls here on ENWorld suggested that between 5-6% of gamers here played at epic levels.

Now if that is the case across the board (?) then each Dragon Magazine (averaging about 60 pages worth of articles; discounting ads, editorial, contents, sage advice, comics and previews) should contain 3.3 pages of epic material each issue. That probably constitutes one article every 2-3 issues (depending on the length of the article). I was wondering also, if perhaps the Class Acts section could have one extra page per issue added to it for epic classes?

Similarly each issue of Dungeon contains an average of 60 pages worth of adventures. Which is 20 pages each for low/mid/high-level adventures. Again the 3.3 pages of epic material translates to one epic adventure every six months.

 

[James Jacobs]

I don't have access to statistics and can't really control what other people like. But when it comes down to it, players who enjoy all classes can enjoy Epic Level. My own players have stated a desire to play their current PCs to epic level.

This is precisely right. Any character can translate into the Epic rules, while only psionic characters can really gain a benefit from the psionics rules. Put another way, epic rules are an extension of the existing classes, while psionics are an addition to the existing classes.

As for Dungeon, we still intend to focus the majority of our adventures on those that can be used without extensive reference to capstone systems like epic, psionics, or incarnum, simply because the popularity of these systems pales in comparasion to the popularity of Core D&D. We're currently hoping to do one epic and one psionic adventure a year. Reader response to Dungeon has certainly been more enthusiastic for epic adventures than it was for psionic adventures.

All that said, we can't publish adventures that don't get submitted; we haven't had many psionic or epic adventure submissions at all, in fact.

 

[Dragonhelm]

All that said, we can't publish adventures that don't get submitted; we haven't had many psionic or epic adventure submissions at all, in fact.

James, what would you look for in psionic or epic adventure submitions?

 

[Thasis]

GAH! I prefer Psionics over Epic Play any day. Epic play is so hard to run after lv30. Therez no quick-NPC charts after lv30. *Scowls*

 

[Angel of Adventure]

I definately prefer Epic, mostly as I don't know Psionics very well. I agree with a previous post in that magic and psionics are too similar, but I've seen others have a lot of fun with psionics, so they must be on to something.

The ELH is decent, but also as mentioned, it lacks support from Wizards. Yes, there is erratta to get it to 3.5, but I really feel that this area has mostly been abandoned by its producers.

I agree that Epic, when done right, should be EPIC!!! However, D&D is just too clunky a system to do the mass combats, epic warfare, etc. that is part of so many of my favorite Epic movies and books. It needs to be simplified and supported, not be left to be confused and abandoned.

Per Epic games, we play one (Ardick Campaign in SH) and I've definately noticed how CR relationships are drastically skewed. At times, the right CR 18 monster can do better than a CR 25 monster, depending on how it matches up against the party.

On a final note, our Epic game has shown me just how important role-playing is to a balanced game. Great powers, feats, etc. are nice, but they don't solve moral and ethical delimnas. The expressions on Epic level PC's faces when a 0 level commoner just won't cooperate is priceless!

-AoA

 

[James Jacobs]

James, what would you look for in psionic or epic adventure submitions?

The same thing I'd look for in any other adventure submissions: a good story, cool villains, and an interesting location for the adventure to take place in. Simply including psionics or epic level stuff in an adventure won't get it any special considerations. In fact, it'll probably get that submission an even more critical eye; since we don't do many psionic or epic adventures, we want to be extra sure that the adventure's really good.

Tips for Psionic Adventure Proposals: Assume that at least one PC will be a psionic character, so make sure there's some treasure and plotlines that would intrigue such a PC. The main bad guy should utilize psionics in some way. You should probably use a few monsters from the psionics handbook, or perhaps include some new psionic monsters or psionic powers. And above all... make sure it's an interesting plotline that hasn't been overused in the magazine!

Tips for Epic Adventure Proposals: Adventures in the 21-30 level range are more attractive to us than higher level ones. No matter what level you write the adventure for, include a sidebar with tips on how to adjust the adventure up or down for higher or lower level parties. The plotline should be epic as well, and should involve not only encounters with some really tough monsters, but should involve some really outrageous plot lines. Don't be afraid to name-drop famous villains, artifacts, or locations in an Epic adventure. We wouldn't really be interested in publishing an adventure in which an epic lich attacks a city. If that epic lich had 24 of the Teeth of Dahlver-Nar in his jaws and was attacking the city so he could collect the last remaining 8 teeth from an ancient vault buried below that city, and those 8 teeth happened to be in the possession of the imprisoned demon lord who slew Dahlver-Nar 1000 years ago and the lich is about to release that demon lord... that's more like it! I still probably wouldn't accept that adventrue proposal unless it had something else going for it, alas, since the "stop the evil lich" adventure's kinda cliche. Maybe if the city were a magic city balanced on a cliff overlooking the positive energy plane? Maybe if the ancient vault below the city was actually a living creature? The key with epic adventures is to just go completely wild, but at the same time keep it manageable.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I think the problem with epic level right now, is that epic level rules are a mess right now. While psionics isn't quite messed up, with only a few powers and feats needing errata.