Epic Level: Worse than Role Master ?

[Tsyr]

Forget it, S.B... I've made the same point in responce to people who say things like "White Wolf is a real roleplayer's system" and "You play Rifts? You must be a powergamer, go away". Never works.

 

[Darkness]

I want to play games with characters that sail the planes and fight in demon wars, defeat armies themselves, and live for centuries and battle gods. Not all the time mind you (for heavens sake not!) , but once in a while I want to do things in a game that totally break all bounds.

Have you tried Exalted?

 

[your_mother]

Munchkins & Dragons

Conclusion: As the construction of the system or the basline level of power to which it conforms is irrelevant to the success of the munchkin or rules lawyer, the logical way to prevent munchkinism and rules lawyerism is not to elimanate game systems that superficially appear to "promote" the aforesaid, but to simply not play with munchkins and rules lawyers.

I'm not saying that I disagree with you--your resolution at least is correct. And if I had more time, I might be inclined to present arguements that attempt to counter your points, but I don't have the time at this point (I am at work). What I'm saying is that I don't like being personally attacked. Also, making levels of power this gross and obscene available to players is similar to giving statistics to Gods--providing the players with the opportunity / a challenge that says, "get up here and make it your goal to kill these things." Sure, it's an implied encouragement, it's not like the products are directly saying, "Munchkins, come one, come all; abuse these new rules in a vomit-inducing fashion." But what they are saying is, "this is possible now, according to the published rules. You too can outgun Elminster, you too can rise to the ranks of (and contend with on equal footing) the Gods, signature phallic characters, etc." And I don't relish that fact.

Break's over, I'll write more later.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I think Penguinking really haas the right idea. but i agree you won't be able to convince these anti-munchkin/rules lawer people of any thing, there generaly too prejiduced to see the point.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

How the hell does anyone play one PC to 71st level?

Wow. I doubt my group would still be playing the same guys that long. I'm sure we'd have went through 3 different campaigns.

 

[Darkness]

your_mother,

And what's the problem with that? All it means is potentially giving more power to the players. So what? And DM worth his salt can "control" (since that's what you seem to be worried about) the PCs no matter of their power level. After all, they are just a few persons while the DM controls the entire world.
As for munchkins trying to bring much-too-powerful characters into a game that's intended for less power: Just say no! Or else change your plans to accomodate them if playing at that level of power is what they really wish; it's their game, too, after all. Of course, it's your game as well, so if you can't have fun in a certain type of game, just say no. Also, a truly "munchkin" player will give you trouble no matter the power level of the campaign and if such a player becomes too much to handle, talking with him is to be recommended. And if all else fails, just don't play with him.

 

[Wolfspider]

How the hell does anyone play one PC to 71st level?

Ask Edena....

Hmmm...haven't seen Edena around much lately...

 

[your_mother]

Munchkin Jihad

your_mother,

And what's the problem with that? All it means is potentially giving more power to the players. So what? And DM worth his salt can "control" (since that's what you seem to be worried about) the PCs no matter of their power level. After all, they are just a few persons while the DM controls the entire world.
As for munchkins trying to bring much-too-powerful characters into a game that's intended for less power: Just say no! Or else change your plans to accomodate them if playing at that level of power is what they really wish; it's their game, too, after all. Of course, it's your game as well, so if you can't have fun in a certain type of game, just say no. Also, a truly "munchkin" player will give you trouble no matter the power level of the campaign and if such a player becomes too much to handle, talking with him is to be recommended. And if all else fails, just don't play with him.

So essentially what you're saying is that munchkins should be encouraged in this fashion, that this kind of gaming should be condoned? And if you don't agree or condone it, you should just not participate or ignore it entirely, right? So it's kind of like saying "the fatah and fanatic Muslims will be comitting terrorist acts against the Israel and non-Muslims abroad whether we say it's ok or not, so putting up specs for all of our bombs and military installations is OK because they'll just build/bomb them anyway."

 

[Ristamar]

I honestly don't understand what all this fuss is about. If one never intended to use epic level rules in their D&D games, this book's release has no affect on their game/campaign.

It's a game. A private game. A game amongst friends. What that has to do with terrorist bombings, I'm sure I'll never know. *shrug*

 

[Tsyr]

Re: Munchkin Jihad

So essentially what you're saying is that munchkins should be encouraged in this fashion, that this kind of gaming should be condoned? And if you don't agree or condone it, you should just not participate or ignore it entirely, right? So it's kind of like saying "the fatah and fanatic Muslims will be comitting terrorist acts against the Israel and non-Muslims abroad whether we say it's ok or not, so putting up specs for all of our bombs and military installations is OK because they'll just build/bomb them anyway."

Ummm... no offense but, I think you need to roll a save vs reality check here... Comparing a style of gaming to murder and terrorism is stupid, ignorant, and offensive. How about if I said the same thing about people who like ice cream with chocolate syrup instead of plain? (The heathans!). It's a damned personal opinion that effects not one damn thing that you need to care about.