Epic Level: Worse than Role Master ?

[Darkness]

Well, one thing's for sure: This lady would wipe the floor with Elminster, Khelben, and all Seven Sisters at once any day!

 

[dagger]

*shrug* I like Rolemaster, so I guess the ELH is gonna be good.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Well one thing to remeber is that it has been spicifically staed that the epic lvl book is not intended to allow pc's to become gods, gods are the realm of the dm, and if you're playing your character above 20th it's because you really like playing your character , and not a ruler of the universe.

This sample is as exteme as the character from a dragon letter complaining his 375th level paladin that was immune to every thing but a +3 club wasan't a challange to play any more.

Supposedly the elh is going to mirror the curve of levels 1-20 power wise, there by keeping things playable.

One of my characters is now 23rd level, using the side bar in the forgotten realms setting, and still playable. It took a while to get there too, i have played him since the phb came out. The campaign has only changed in that we're more focused on roleplay than monster bashing.

I for can't wait to get the ELH, the side bar rules just don't satisfy.

 

[nazgul]

Interesting.

I'll first say that D&D 3e is by far not my favorite game. I consider Basic D&D (the Rules Cyclopedia edition) to be the best D&D so far. I tend to prefer rules-light games over complex ones. For that reason, I also prefer the old edition of Rolemaster (RM2) over the new one, as it's simpler, even more so than D&D 3e. I'm talking about the core rules BTW, not all 15 companions. Only a sick DM would try to use all that material. It would be like playing GURPS with every rule from every book...

In any event, here's a high-level Rolemaster NPC stat block for your enjoyment. You'll notice that it's quite a bit smaller... This is a 40th
level NPC, but I've seen stat blocks of NPCs up to level 120, and they don't get much larger than this. Rolemaster scales quite well, and you
don't need extra handbooks to model such high-level characters; it's all in the core rules.

Voriig Kye, "the silver dragon" (a Dragonlord):

Lvl Hits AT(DB) Sh Gr Melee Ob Missile Ob Mov
Human Form : 40 190 14(120) Y30* A/L 240th 180kynac 25
Dragon Form: (60) 450 12(110) N/A N/A 290HCl 200HBt VF/VF
Age: ? (Appears ~80 or 25*)
Eyes: Silver.
Hair: Silver-grey.
Build: Slight (or muscular).
Height: 5'10" (or 6'6").
Profession: Astrologer/Druid.
Stats: St-103; Qu-102; Em-95; In-101; Pr-102; Ag-100; Co-99; Me-98; Re-95;
SD-80. AP: 78/101. PP: 1715 (245 x 7).
Skill Bonuses (in human form): Climb95; Swim80; Ride60; DTraps75; PLocks95;
S&H100/180; Perc200; Rune80; S&W120; Chan100; DirS240; Amb\xb120; AMov80;
AD60; MASt180; MASw200; Acro140; Act130; Admin90; Arch80; Diplom100;
Lead75; Nav90; PubSp120; RMas90; Sail100; Seduct90; SpellM80; StarG170;
Stra&Tac70; Subdu120; WeathW80.
Spells: Base Spell OB: 80. Directed Spell OB: 240 (Lightning Bolt).
Spells: all Astrologer, Mentalist (and Druid) Base to 50th; Open and Closed
Mentalist to 30th.
Special Abilities:
- Resistance of form: Voriig Kye resists attacks as a Super-large creature;
Large creature in human form.
- Breath Weapon: x6 +60 Ionized gas cloud (treat as Cold Ball but use
Electricity criticals) in a cone extending up to 150' and 50' across
at the furthest extent. Usable up to once every 6 rounds, total of 6x
per day.
- Two-Hand Sword: +35 silver sword with a diamond pommel, it will take on
the appearance of a silver walking-cane when Voriig utters the command-
word.
- Kynacs: Three +30 throwing kynacs, with 3x the normal range.
- Telescope: A large device located in his manor on Ordye Throg, it allows
Voriig to have access to the Seer Base list True Sight , except the
ranges are extended: feet in the spell description are miles for the
Telescope. The curvature of the planet is magically compensated for.
Voriig must use his own PPs, and must look through the telescope to
utilize the powers. Certain places are shielded from the telescope's
sights, and powerful Ess\xe6nce Flows can also interfere with it.
- Cloak: will change color at a thought to blend with the wearer's
surroundings; adds +80 to Hiding.
- Ring: Platinum/iridium ring with a blue diamond set, x7 PP multiplier
and allows Voriig to cast Lightning Triad 3x a day: A 300' range spell
which causes a three-pronged fork of lightning to arc from the caster's
palm, striking up to 3 targets (they must be all within 60 degrees of each
other). Caster's full bonus can only apply to one attack; the other two
are halved.

 

[Droogie]

Except for prepping NPCs to use against 15th-20th level PCs, I have no use for Epic Level rules. I can barely keep the abilities of an 8th level wizard straight.

This pretty much sums it up for me. Sure, there may be a place for epic level characters in a campaign. Heck, there might even be a few non-munchie players out there who could role-play one.

My group has been playing since August, and a couple of combat encounters still take all night. I think at epic levels, the game will collapse under the weight of its own complexity. I pity the DM who needs to make up an encounter for four 30th level characters. Fun's over when play becomes this much work.

 

[Aaron L]

I await the epic book with baited breath. I want to play games with characters that sail the planes and fight in demon wars, defeat armies themselves, and live for centuries and battle gods. Not all the time mind you (for heavens sake not!) , but once in a while I want to do things in a game that totally break all bounds.

 

[Henry@home]

Everyone ready to "rip the Epic Level Handbook a new one" needs to remember that this character does not use just material from the book - this is one gamer's custom creation. Wait until you get some evidence before you bring the case to trial.

As for the ELH, It is something I too will look forward to, even if my Players and I never make it to those levels.

We all know thanks to Andy Collina what kind of material this book will contain. If not, I suggest we all go back to Andy's web site and read his material again. Past that, July 2002 it is.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello there!

For Christ's sake, how pathetic it is to want to play a god when hardly any of us can do a decent job of role-playing a 200 year old elf, because the concepts involved are too alien... And please, don't tell me you KNOW you can do a good job of role-playing a deity... Unless something strange is going on on the boards, you are HUMAN which is the only point that needs to be made...

Heaven forbid anyone roleplaying a god could simply use their imagination! According to you that doesn't seem to be an option though!

A) Keep saving the universe on a weekly basis from a series of increasingly implausible world-destrying beasts that sit hidden in some far away plane, quietly plotting until it's their week to die - which is patently silly in a low-budget fantasy tv series way B) Adventuring by proxy - you're so powerful that getting personally involved is beneath you (or you're held in check by the powers of other epic characters/deities), so you resort to manipulating mundane events in less obvious ways - thus making the whole "deity" thing pointless, and eliminatiing the need to stat out epic characters C) Through some strange twist of fate you keep on getting either stripped of your powers or forced into situations where they don't work so you can be challenged by lesser enemies...

Such meanderings are what have given Epic/Immortal roleplaying a bad name over the years.

...Guidelines and advice for how to run a game of epic scope I could use...

Evidently.

I am sure D&Dg/ELH (among others ) will indeed handle campaign advice/potential problems.

 

[Darklone]

Excuse me, Zeus is ringing on the door

Unless something strange is going on on the boards, you are HUMAN which is the only point that needs to be made...

Wait a moment, you wanna tell me, there are no other gods here on the boards? Heck, I was wasting my time with mere mortals?

ZAP

 

[mmu1]

Uh-huh. Look, my point, basically, is this: It is Epic when someone human - mortal, imperfect - ends up with the fate of the nations on his shoulders, is required to do more than can be humanely expected, and suceeds. When a fighter/mage of demi-god stature does the same, it's just a typical D&D game, no matter how high the numbers get. Perhaps it's just an issue of semantics - if people talked about "High Level Gaming" I'd just shrug my shoulders at their fetish with large numbers.