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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Epic Levels 21-30 (please help/give thoughts)
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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8034406" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>Then it remains the question, do you have underlying math, or are you just winging it?</p><p></p><p>Having underlying math can help align different epic classes easier than having to do N choose 2 comparisons. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>It isn't trivial, and winging it is much easier.</p><p></p><p>I can give an example however. We can say that our level 30 character is equivalent to a Champion Fighter 20 Zealot Barbarian 20 half-orc overall (but only L 30, so +8 proficiency)</p><p></p><p>We'll modestly optimize; Great Weapon Mastery, Flametongue Greataxe, 24 strength, 24 constitution, 20 dex.</p><p></p><p>+8 proficiency, +7 strength, -5 GWM is +10 to hit.</p><p></p><p>Against an AC of 20 this hits on a 10+ for 80% accuracy 28% crit rate.</p><p></p><p>Hit is 1d12+2d6+17, or 30.5. Crit is 6d12+4d6+17, or +5d12+2d6 (39.5) over a normal hit. Zealot is another 1d6+10 per round.</p><p></p><p>13.5 from zealot; more likely it crits than it misses, but the crit is small, so we'll neglect it.</p><p></p><p>155.34 damage per action on AC 20.</p><p></p><p>Your HP are 6*20+7*20+40*7+5 or 545.</p><p></p><p>Your AC while naked is 22.</p><p></p><p>It took 8 ASIs to hit 24/24/20 in physical stats plus GWM. You have 3 ASIs remaining; resiliant at the very least. Maybe lucky.</p><p></p><p>You have 2 action surges. So your 3 round damage output vs AC 20 is 672.8 or 224 per round.</p><p></p><p>Your raw DPR is 216.5 with effective accuracy of +15; your crits are worth about another +7, as your critical hits are a bit more than double damage. Call it +22 to hit (effective).</p><p></p><p>Your AC is 22, but you grant advantage, so closer to 17. Your resistance to BPS is worth +50% HP or so.</p><p></p><p>Using (DPR*HP*(1+.1*(ATK+AC-13)))/5 we get this barbarian+fighter is "worth" about 84955 XP, or is a CR 25-26 creature.</p><p></p><p>Hmm, I forgot about GWF (fighting style), or the champions 2nd fighting style. That'd add a bit of damage. Not sure what to do with 2nd fighting style, given that the barbarian is naked.</p><p></p><p>A raw level 20 fighter with no subclass (!) in full plate using a flaming greatsword in +2 armor and shield (AC 24, 4d6+5(19) damage) is 76 damage per action, or 127 DPR. They have ~18 con for 204 HP. Their ATK is +6 (!) and AC is 24. Using the same math we get this fighter is worth 13990 XP, or between CR 15 and 16.</p><p></p><p>A subclass would help, maybe samurai to make up for the GWF inaccuracy or battlemaster. That might bump the CR by a point or two.</p><p></p><p>(Note that a better measure of PC-CR is to give them an adventuring day; without that, the Paladin and other "dump spell" builds get crazy. Here we used short rest resources only (other than healing)).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8034406, member: 72555"] Then it remains the question, do you have underlying math, or are you just winging it? Having underlying math can help align different epic classes easier than having to do N choose 2 comparisons. ;) It isn't trivial, and winging it is much easier. I can give an example however. We can say that our level 30 character is equivalent to a Champion Fighter 20 Zealot Barbarian 20 half-orc overall (but only L 30, so +8 proficiency) We'll modestly optimize; Great Weapon Mastery, Flametongue Greataxe, 24 strength, 24 constitution, 20 dex. +8 proficiency, +7 strength, -5 GWM is +10 to hit. Against an AC of 20 this hits on a 10+ for 80% accuracy 28% crit rate. Hit is 1d12+2d6+17, or 30.5. Crit is 6d12+4d6+17, or +5d12+2d6 (39.5) over a normal hit. Zealot is another 1d6+10 per round. 13.5 from zealot; more likely it crits than it misses, but the crit is small, so we'll neglect it. 155.34 damage per action on AC 20. Your HP are 6*20+7*20+40*7+5 or 545. Your AC while naked is 22. It took 8 ASIs to hit 24/24/20 in physical stats plus GWM. You have 3 ASIs remaining; resiliant at the very least. Maybe lucky. You have 2 action surges. So your 3 round damage output vs AC 20 is 672.8 or 224 per round. Your raw DPR is 216.5 with effective accuracy of +15; your crits are worth about another +7, as your critical hits are a bit more than double damage. Call it +22 to hit (effective). Your AC is 22, but you grant advantage, so closer to 17. Your resistance to BPS is worth +50% HP or so. Using (DPR*HP*(1+.1*(ATK+AC-13)))/5 we get this barbarian+fighter is "worth" about 84955 XP, or is a CR 25-26 creature. Hmm, I forgot about GWF (fighting style), or the champions 2nd fighting style. That'd add a bit of damage. Not sure what to do with 2nd fighting style, given that the barbarian is naked. A raw level 20 fighter with no subclass (!) in full plate using a flaming greatsword in +2 armor and shield (AC 24, 4d6+5(19) damage) is 76 damage per action, or 127 DPR. They have ~18 con for 204 HP. Their ATK is +6 (!) and AC is 24. Using the same math we get this fighter is worth 13990 XP, or between CR 15 and 16. A subclass would help, maybe samurai to make up for the GWF inaccuracy or battlemaster. That might bump the CR by a point or two. (Note that a better measure of PC-CR is to give them an adventuring day; without that, the Paladin and other "dump spell" builds get crazy. Here we used short rest resources only (other than healing)). [/QUOTE]
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