Epic Metamagic Feat- Reactive Spell

[the Jester]

So I was sitting around the other day, trying to think up epic metamagic feats, and I came up with this monster. What do you think? Is +8 levels too much, too little, or just right?


REACTIVE SPELL [Epic] [Metamagic]

You can cast a spell in response to another’s action.

Prerequisites: Automatic Quicken Spell, Blinding Speed, Improved Initiative, Quicken Spell, Superior Initiative, ability to cast tenth-level spells, Spellcraft (35 ranks)

Benefit: A reactive spell can cast by you as a free action when it is not your turn. It counts against your normal limit of quickened spells per round (counting until just before the count at which you cast it comes up again in the initiative sequence). You cannot cast a reactive spell when you are flat-footed. You cannot interrupt an action with a reactive spell; it takes place in reaction to (after) the action. A reactive spell takes up a slot eight levels higher than normal.

 

[Crothian]

That's really darn powerful. I have no idea of it's too good, too weak or just right. One does have to be 32nd level to get those ranks in spellcraft; and by then the 5 feats is not that hard to come by.

I like the idea though

 

[aurance]

It's not powerful at all.

In essence all it does is move your quickened spells up the initiative order, but less than a full turn.

In combat, I see very little advantage to this feat over casting a regular spell + quickened spell each round.

 

[LightPhoenix]

So it's basically something like a cross between Contingency and Feather Fall, right? Considering how few 10th+ spell slots that an epic wizard can get, I don't particularly think it's overly powerful, especially at +8 spell levels. The fact that it still takes place after your opponents action means if they kill you with whatever they do you're still dead, and no spell goes off.

 

[the Jester]

What do you think an appropriate level increase for it is, aurance and LightPhoenix?

I see it as an almost instant counter to whatever your enemy does, so your buddies don't have to deal with it on their turns. "He casts wall of force-" "Reactive disintegrate!"

 

[Mordane76]

What do you think an appropriate level increase for it is, aurance and LightPhoenix?

I see it as an almost instant counter to whatever your enemy does, so your buddies don't have to deal with it on their turns. "He casts wall of force-" "Reactive disintegrate!"

This scenario also points out another "difficulty" with this feat, though. It's only really useful to a sorcerer, as a wizard would has to prepare a spell like this for such a contingency, which may waste valuable high level slots on lower-level spells; the scenario you describe above requires a 13th level spell slot for a fifth level spell. A sorcerer, however, benefits greatly from this feat, because he doesn't have to prepare the spells ahead of time, and by the wording of Automatic Quicken Spell can use these spells as truly quickened spells (instead of as full-round actions); in the above scenario, the sorcerer gladly burns the spell slot if he has it, because then his 30+ level fighter and rogue buddies rush in and mince whoever put up the wall of force in the first place. However, bringing it down in level adjustment makes it even more useful to the sorcerer...

 

[aurance]

What do you think an appropriate level increase for it is, aurance and LightPhoenix?

I see it as an almost instant counter to whatever your enemy does, so your buddies don't have to deal with it on their turns. "He casts wall of force-" "Reactive disintegrate!"

This is not as useful as it seems. Consider this. Your friends can just delay until you go, which they may be apt to do anyway if they can't deal with a wall of force. Nobody loses an action, you just cast a quickened dispel on your turn for +4 levels instead of reactive dispel for +8 levels. Otherwise, the sequence of events and consequences are exactly the same.

My answer to the appropriate level increase - is nothing, since the feat is not at all useful, whether as a regular feat or epic feat.

Allowing sorcerers to cast quickened spells as a free action seems like a side effect you did not intend - If this is the effect you are going for, you should just have an epic feat that lets sorcerers use quickened spells.

 

[LightPhoenix]

This is not as useful as it seems. Consider this. Your friends can just delay until you go, which they may be apt to do anyway if they can't deal with a wall of force. Nobody loses an action, you just cast a quickened dispel on your turn for +4 levels instead of reactive dispel for +8 levels. Otherwise, the sequence of events and consequences are exactly the same.

Except that in the interim, your enemies may be able to act while your allies are delaying. That's not something you necessarily want happening, though in certain conditions it may be useful. For this reason I think it's slightly better than Quicken Spell.

One thing that doesn't quite sit well with me is being able to cast the spell off your turn any time you want... but then again we are talking about an Epic feat here. And actually, once I put some thought into it, I don't it'd be too terrible... though playtesting is the only way to be sure.

I think I would put it at +6 levels without seeing it in action, though I'd be a little wary of it being too game breaking. The cautious side of me would probably stick with +8, and lower it later if it's too under-powered.

Also, while I was thinking about it, I came up with a similar feat, possibly a lower-level version... not playtested at all, of course.

Contingent Spell [Metamagic]

You can cast a spell in response to specific conditions.

Prerequisites: Quicken Spell, three other Metamagic Feats

Benefit: A Contingent Spell may be cast as a free action in reaction to certain conditions being met, as per the spell Contingency. These conditions must be set when the spell is prepared, and may not be altered once set. The caster may choose not to cast the Contingent Spell in response to a set condition, in which case the spell is retained and may be cast at the next instance of the conditions being met. A Contingent Spell takes up a slot five levels higher than normal.

So basically, you prepare spells as if you've cast Contingency already on them. I just cooked this up, so it probably is not be balanced at all.

 

[aoeu]

Actually, due to a fundamental misunderstanding...

Hate to bring back an old thread, but you might find this interesting:

It was understood by my friends and I (actually due to a years-ago phone call to WotC) that free actions included things that could be done on your opponents turn, or whenever (calling for help, etc.). So for years my campaigns (and all my friends' campaigns) have basically had Quicken Spell as the Reactive Spell.... and had it at 4+ levels, not 8 or anything like that.

So basically I've always had Quick Spell be an immediate action, not a swift one.

Quicken spell is still used for it's own features (just getting the extra spell a round), and it is a reasonably high pick for wizards. The most common mid level use includes:

"Quick Missles", available at 5th level and usually used to interfere with casting. The preemptive counterspell + damage is pretty quality, but usually the concentration check is simply passed.

I have a spell called "Counterspell" in my games, which can duplicate the counterspell function of Dispel Magic (and no others, it just duplicates the caster level check to see if you stop a spell). It's second level. Normally, you have to delay an action, but this is also a popular target for Quicken Spell in my games, as a 6th level spell slot gives you a chance to negate casting.

At high levels, Quicken Spell in my games has been pretty impressive, with quick Orbs hammering casters, and all the uses that Quicken has in a normal game (doubling up a fireball, doing something + dispelling what the other guy did, etc.).


All that being said, when I found the actual rules out, I didn't change, instead just houseruling it to what I had been doing all along. My group was used to and comfortable with the idea. Non-disruptable magic items came out when the group is too worried, and the players enjoy the ability, and it's only really great against other casters (against melee fighters it's only slightly better than the core rules Quicken Spell, because reacting usually isn't so hot: at best you can cost them around by waiting until they draw close to bring up a magical wall or something, so that they have to go around it).

It would probably be an interesting addition at +5 or +6, as it doesn't dominate my games at just +4. If you have reactive spell have quick as a prereq, you will *probably* be ok.


Unless there's something really broken that my gaming group hasn't come up with yet.

Another way to model it is as a very versatile readied action plus you still get your normal attack, something quicken can sort of pull off right now: on your move, you trigger the quick spell, and then you ready your standard action to fire your regular spell (unless you can't do free actions when you move or something, at which point I'll throw up my hands and give up trying to understand the core rules on actions, as I would obviously be hopelessly muddled). Sometimes midlevel guys do this in order to hammer enemy mages with their high level abilities in response to them casting, and still be casting two spells a round.