Epic monsters BAB and ST progression

Natural Armor would increase only if and as Size increased.

Nothing stops you from advancing any creature's HD however far you like -- just be aware that your players may balk at you stepping that far off the beaten path, WRT the rules. ^_^
 

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Pax said:
Natural Armor would increase only if and as Size increased.
Pax said:
Nothing stops you from advancing any creature's HD however far you like -- just be aware that your players may balk at you stepping that far off the beaten path, WRT the rules. ^_^

Oh... yeah...

Well, how does that look ? I gave it enhancements as if it's size increased, but I still kept his size at Large (reduced from Huge) so that it actually can fit in a dungeon environment...

PROTO-RETRIEVER
Large Construct (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice:170d10+1,360 (2,295 hp)
Initiative:+3
Speed:50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class:50 (–2 size, +23 Dex, +19 natural), touch 31, flat-footed 27
Base Attack/Grapple:+127/+153
Attack:Claw +142 melee (2d6+10) and eye ray +148 ranged touch
Full Attack:4 claws +143 melee (10d6+18) and bite +138 melee (8d8+13) and eye ray +148 ranged touch
Space/Reach:10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks:Eye rays, find target, improved grab
Special Qualities:Construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., fast healing 5, low-light vision
Saves:Fort +56, Ref +79, Will +56
Abilities:Str 47, Dex 57, Con —, Int —, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills:
Feats:
Organization:Solitary
Challenge Rating: 51
Treasure:None
Alignment:Always chaotic evil

A proto-retriever specializes in recovering lost or desired objects, runaway slaves, and enemies and bringing them back to its master. A proto-retriever has a body the size of an ox, with legs spanning more than 10 feet. It weighs about 5,000 pounds.

Combat
Proto-retrievers attack with four claws, but their eye rays are far more deadly.
Eye Rays (Su): A proto-retriever’s eyes can produce four different magical rays with a range of 100 feet. Each round, it can fire one ray as a free action. A particular ray is usable only once every 4 rounds. A proto-retriever can fire an eye ray in the same round that it makes physical attacks.
The save DC for all rays is 118. The save DC is Dexterity-based.
The four eye effects are:
Fire: Deals 20d6 points of fire damage to the target (Reflex half ).
Cold: Deals 20d6 points of cold damage to the target (Reflex half ).
Electricity: Deals 20d6 points of electricity damage to the target (Reflex half ).
Petrification: The target must succeed on a Fortitude save or turn to stone permanently.
Find Target (Sp): When ordered to find an item or a creature, a proto-retriever does so
unerringly, as though guided by discern location.
The being giving the order must have seen (or must have an item belonging to) the creature to be found, or must have touched the object to be located. This ability is the equivalent of an 8th-level spell.
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a proto-retriever must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and grips the opponent fast in its mouth. This is the method by which it usually “retrieves” things.
 
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Trainz said:
CRGreathouse, you have been a well of clear and useful help.

Thanks !

I do my best. I'm glad it helped.

As far as your creature is concerned, I see no reason you shouldn't ignore the advancement guidelines -- as long as you're willing to re-rate the CR. I see advancement limits as "the creature should follow the CR formula roughly as long as its in these bounds". Outside you're on your own.

I would normally question the bonus hit points, but the base creature doesn't look right either (+80 hp instead of +40 hp), so do whatever feels right to you.
 


Camarath said:
Wouldn't the save DC be 118 (10 + 85 [1/2 HD] + 23 [Dex])?
Man. I didn't know that was how it was calculated. I went to check in Creating a Monster in the MM, and sure enough it was there.

Better rework my critters...

How do you determine the save DC's of, for example, advanced demonic spell like abilities ?
 
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Trainz said:
How do you determine the save DC's of, for example, advanced demonic spell like abilities ?
Usually the saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier.
 

Since we're on this topic, I thought I'd ask something that's always been bothering me. Suppose you're a young brass dragon with 10 HD. You also have 10 levels of fighter for a BAB of +10. Suppose you never gain any more fighter levels, but you age until you're a mature adult so that you now have 21 HD. Is your BAB +31 or do the +10 BAB you get from your fighter levels convert to a +5 EAB?
 

FireLance said:
Since we're on this topic, I thought I'd ask something that's always been bothering me. Suppose you're a young brass dragon with 10 HD. You also have 10 levels of fighter for a BAB of +10. Suppose you never gain any more fighter levels, but you age until you're a mature adult so that you now have 21 HD. Is your BAB +31 or do the +10 BAB you get from your fighter levels convert to a +5 EAB?

That's a really good question. I'd tend to convert base attack and base saves to epic attack (ouch) and epic saves (yay!), but I don't have anything to support that position.
 

CRGreathouse said:
That's a really good question. I'd tend to convert base attack and base saves to epic attack (ouch) and epic saves (yay!), but I don't have anything to support that position.
Indeed that's a good question! I'm with CRGreathouse on this.
Think of it this way: if the dragons gains another age category, that's the new basic creature - then you add the levels, which therefore count as epic levels.
Does that make sense?
 

Camarath said:
Usually the saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier.
I knew that, I didn't ask the right question (moron)...

When a creature is advanced as per the hit-dice advancment rules, at what rate, does his caster-level rises for spells ? A Lillend is a 7 Hit Dice critter, uses spell-like abilities at 10th level, but also casts spells as a 6th level Bard. Using hit-dice advancment, what would his spell-like level and bard level would be like if I advanced the critter to 20 hit dice ?
 
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