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"Epic" progression after 6th level


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phindar

First Post
Well, clearly, because once he hit the level cap he picked up Martial Weapons Proficiency.

That's actually an interesting idea for a character under this system. Go 6 in Wizard and once you go Epic alternate between taking Increased Toughness and offensive feats like Martial Weapon, Weapon Focus and so on. You could probably make a fairly decent melee caster without having to multiclass.

It also raises an interesting point about stats. Capped at 3rd level spells, having casting stats above 16 becomes less important. Its still nice for the bump to Save DCs, but its not non-negotiable the way it is when its tied to that bonus 4th level spell.
 
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wolff96

First Post
rycanada said:
Maybe so; but he can certainly be done as an Epic 6th level character.

Sure. Give him Weapon Proficiency: Longsword, Weapon Focus: Longsword, and maybe one of the splatbook feats for using two weapons (staff and blade) and he's up there with some of the best fighters in the world -- most of them aren't sixth level half-celestials, after all. :)

----------------------

Also, it occurred to me that you might want to make a few feats for Sorcerers... Since they fall behind wizards under the system assumption here, you could re-write the "Sudden" feats -- making them into the equivalent of Weapon Specialization for fighters.

They might not know many spells -- and I agree they need access to the Extra Spell feat -- but they're suddenly the masters of their own spells again. No wizard could match the intensity of a Sudden Maximised Fireball.

I do think that you should allow modifiers for items under this system, though. Find a rare magical site and use a bunch of special materials and you can make the legendary Flaming Blade of Azirethos (a +1 Flaming Longsword that required several special components.) By making components important and then cribbing some of the "Special Sites" rules -- the ones in Midnight were particularly good -- you could really make crafting interesting.
 
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Ry

Explorer
Maybe I should mention this, then: When players reach the cap, I actively encourage - but don't require in the rules - that they look for other things about their characters besides "powering up"
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
rycanada said:
look for other things about their characters besides "powering up"

When I read this, I was weakened for 2d4 rounds and dazed for 1 round. Thank the gods you don't have more hit dice! :uhoh:

-- N
 

phindar

First Post
Well, I'd say going all melee at 6th is more diversification for a Wizard than powering up, but any time a character gains something, power is involved. I'm not entirely sold on the idea that say Wpn Focus is more of a power up than Skill Focus; its all about getting better at what you want that character to do.

A character can go 6 in Fighter and not change much with 6 bonus feats; they get better at more stuff but its all the same schtick; hitting people harder and more often. He isn't going to be able to cast spells, and even if he devotes all his feats to skill bonuses, he's probably still not going to be a particularly good skill monkey. But if you go 6 in any of the other classes and then tack on 6 bonus feats, and its not that hard to horn in on the Fighter's action. (Even with 6 feats devoted to melee combat, a Wizard is still going to trail behind a basic 6th level fighter-- nevermind and Epic Fighter with 6 more feats-- but then he'll still have his 6 levels of Wizard to fall back on. I mean, just Fly and a few ranged combat feats would give him quite the edge.)

There are all sorts of other considerations that an actual game would bring into the discussion, things particular to the campaign's focus, setting and the characters. When you're playing a character or running a game you go by a lot more than just the raw mechanics, but I'm only focusing on the raw mechanics right now. I gotta push the envelope, Mav.
 

Ry

Explorer
That's a good point, phindar - feats mean mechanical power, whether you're working within your niche or not.

On another note, I think the biggest priority is for me to get my hands dirty and do more playtesting.
 

Ry

Explorer
For playtesting I'm hoping to use a nice, friendly character sheet. I worked this up from a TGM Initiative card originally. Not pretty but workable.

Edit: Updated version.
 

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Ry

Explorer
Also, for now I'm going to keep calling it E6L (E-sixel), but if you want to call it Ry20 then go nuts. :)

Maybe just E6 would be better...
 
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rom90125

First Post
Ryan,

I really like this idea...a lot! I think I would lose some of my powergamers, but I suspect everyone else would go for this variant system with little concern.

Is there any chance of getting the E6L rules condensed into a PDF for review? I would like to see the rules/options all listed in a single document that I could give to my players.
 

Ry

Explorer
Hi Rom, I am trying to figure out what the best presentation would be, but yeah, that's the idea. Let me see what I can cobble together.
 

Ry

Explorer
I'm going to compile the rules (just the house rules, not the SRD originals updated), do a FAQ, and ask a mod to merge this thread with the really old one of the same name. Then I'll start a new thread with all the collected details.
 

Storminator

First Post
Animus said:
Hello,

This system looks like it would be cool to play as a change of pace. I do have a question about skills, however, and I apologize if I missed information upthread. What do you do about really high DCs (30+)? Some Knowledge skills may require attaining a result at or above DC 30. A 6th level character with 9 ranks in a skill +3 from Skill Focus +2 from one of the misc. feats that gives +2 to two skills gives a total bonus of +14-18 depending on the relevant ability bonus. Taking 10 or an average roll gets you 24-28. Of course you can roll high to get better results, but do you view this as a problem?

It's not that bad. A 14-18 without synergies or circumstance bonuses or Aid Anothers gives a pretty good shot a DC 30 check, and not out of the question for a DC 35.

There is the question of what happens in those cases where a failure means you can't check again until you gain another skill point (like some Spellcraft checks). If you never level, you can never gain another skill point. A feat that grants +1 Skill Point probably isn't outrageous, even if it lets you break level caps.

PS
 

Ry

Explorer
There's a feat that allows 5 Skill points, I believe, but it doesn't break skill caps. But I'd allow an "Incantation" to reset that requirement.

Hoo boy. There are quite a few little epicycles that I didn't expect. But we shall perservere!
 

Animus

Explorer
rycanada said:
There's a feat that allows 5 Skill points, I believe, but it doesn't break skill caps. But I'd allow an "Incantation" to reset that requirement.
Open Minded is the name of that feat. I believe it's in Complete Adventurer.
rycanada said:
Hoo boy. There are quite a few little epicycles that I didn't expect. But we shall perservere!

Yes we shall! By sharing your ideas, others can help develop it as well.
 
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