Epic Spell Question

[Anubis]

I am trying to translate a spell from "The Tome of Mighty Magic" called Ice Darts into an Epic Spell, but I see no way of making it.

How do you make an Epic Spell that varies based on caster level? For instance, how do you make an Epic Spell that gives more damage per level or more targets per level, such as an Epic Searing Light or and Epic Magic Missile?

Here is the spell:

Ice Darts

This spell creates 1 ice dart per level of the spellcaster, which flies from the caster's finger always striking its target(s). For each dart, the creature struck must make a successful Fortitude save or be forzen dead. Upon a successful save, the creature still takes 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels.

Oh, and there are no maximum limits on the number of darts or the number of damage dice.

So how would I make this Epic Spell? I know it is easily one of the most powerul spells one could think of, but that's the only thing I know. How do you get multiple targets a dice per caster level?

Help?

 

[Crothian]

You don't. Epic spells do not have a varying degree. They do one thing, one really powerful thing and that is all. I had the same problem with a epic summoning spell. I wanted a spell that could summon different types of creatures each time. I also wanted a random number summoned depending on the power, but that also is not possible by the rules as written. And I'm not comfortible enough with the epic spells system to start allowing for changes.

 

[AuraSeer]

It looks like level-dependent effects are unbalancing when you consider the development rules for epic spells.

If a 21st-level character cast the spell you described, it would do 10d6 damage to 21 targets. But when he advances to 100th level, it would do 50d6 damage to 100 targets. He only paid the development cost once, but the spell just keeps getting stronger. That puts other spells at a disadvantage, because if you want a stronger Hellball or whatever, you need to research the new version independently.

[houserule]
You could probably simulate level-dependent effects by letting a character upgrade his epic spells. Figure out the effect at the lowest possible level, and use that to set the base DC for the spell. To upgrade the spell, just add the additional factors, figure out the new DC and development cost, and pay the difference between that cost and what you already put it. It'd work just like upgrading a magic item.

I don't think this is allowed by the ELH as it stands, but Rule 0 is a wonderful thing.
[/houserule]

 

[kreynolds]

[houserule]
You could probably simulate level-dependent effects by letting a character upgrade his epic spells. Figure out the effect at the lowest possible level, and use that to set the base DC for the spell. To upgrade the spell, just add the additional factors, figure out the new DC and development cost, and pay the difference between that cost and what you already put it. It'd work just like upgrading a magic item.

I don't think this is allowed by the ELH as it stands, but Rule 0 is a wonderful thing.
[/houserule]

Now that's a damn good idea! Sir, I tip my hat.

 

[Crothian]

Now that's a damn good idea! Sir, I tip my hat.

I concur with the esteemed, Mr kreynolds.

 

[Anubis]

That's a great idea! Thanks, guys!

To add to that, perhaps Epic Spellcasters could have an option of casting the spell at any level of power up to the maximum?

For instance, say Ice Darts was developed up to Level 40, doing 20d6 damage to 40 targets. Perhaps the caster could instead choose to cast it at Level 30, at the lower Spellcraft DC, of course, giving a bit more flexibility?

 

[kreynolds]

To add to that, perhaps Epic Spellcasters could have an option of casting the spell at any level of power up to the maximum?

For instance, say Ice Darts was developed up to Level 40, doing 20d6 damage to 40 targets. Perhaps the caster could instead choose to cast it at Level 30, at the lower Spellcraft DC, of course, giving a bit more flexibility?

Nah. That's not the theme of epic spells. I'd require them to be separate spells.

 

[Xeriar]

[houserule]
You could probably simulate level-dependent effects by letting a character upgrade his epic spells. Figure out the effect at the lowest possible level, and use that to set the base DC for the spell. To upgrade the spell, just add the additional factors, figure out the new DC and development cost, and pay the difference between that cost and what you already put it. It'd work just like upgrading a magic item.

I don't think this is allowed by the ELH as it stands, but Rule 0 is a wonderful thing.
[/houserule]

Well it's researched like the construction of a magic item - I don't see why not.

This can give a whole new meaning to the idea of a 'seed' though, where you research various seeds, and various effects based on these seeds, etc. Culmninating in (upgradeable) epic spells of your choice.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Nah. That's not the theme of epic spells. I'd require them to be separate spells.

I agree. The concept was equaled to upgrading a magic weapon. After you upgraded the weapon, you don't have the old version any more. So it should be with the epic spell.
And like the epic weapon, why would you want the non-epic version? Why use a +3 Sword if you have a +5 Sword? You can't use the +3 more often or something. Same with the epic spell: you only have so many slots for epic spells. Whether you use them for that spell that deals 30d6 or for the one with 40d6, the slot is wasted. Of course, you have the higher DC, but you wouldn't want to use spells that are risky (or even impossible) to cast, anyway. The only advantage in using the lower one is that he perhaps has lesser mitigating factors, so you have to burn less XP or the backlash is not so strong. But you have to live with that (if you don't research the better spell new fron scratch)

 

[Crothian]

Here's the weapon anology. I have a longsword +3. I upgrade it to a longsword +5. However, cicumstances happen that I need a longsword +3. You can't reduce the sword back to +3. You can choose to only use some of the bonuses.

It's not the best anology. The point is, you've upgraded to a better version and you cannot go back to the lower one. All the resources are in the new one.

Another way to look at it is saying I have a longsword +3. I make it into a longsword +5. Now I don't have a long sword +3 and a long sword +5. I only have the long sword +5.

You want to take a spell, increase it's power and somehow end up with both.

Hope that in some way helps.