"Epic" Spells

[Brain]

They changed auto-quicken in one of the Complete books; I think Arcane. IIRC, the first feat spent on it gets you auto-quickened 0 and 1st level spells. Each time you take it, it increases the level by one.

This is much different than 3 feats for auto-quicken through 9th level.

 

[the Jester]

They changed auto-quicken in one of the Complete books; I think Arcane. IIRC, the first feat spent on it gets you auto-quickened 0 and 1st level spells. Each time you take it, it increases the level by one.

This is much different than 3 feats for auto-quicken through 9th level.

Hummm, I hadn't noticed that. Prolly for the best, though it is a little disappointing for one of my epic villains...

 

[Shariell]

They changed auto-quicken in one of the Complete books; I think Arcane. IIRC, the first feat spent on it gets you auto-quickened 0 and 1st level spells. Each time you take it, it increases the level by one.

This is much different than 3 feats for auto-quicken through 9th level.

I hate splatbooks. Now even more

Good catch Brain

BTW...the SRD isn't updated yet with the revised version, thus EVERY third party companies or game designers still use the original feat as described in the ELH even in 3.5 supplements.
I think we could probably come to see both version in game (silly I know...but since the 3.5 SRD is THE official source for everyone but the wizards of the coast who want to design some new epic material...)

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I'd like to point out that epic wizards and sorcerers get a bonus feat at level 23 and every 3 levels there after and not every 5 levels, at least according to the 3.5 DMG and the SRD and the epic level hand book.

I don't think you should give wizards more slots above level 9 for free. They're already strong enough at epic levels.

 

[Angel of Adventure]

I wonder if you could still cast regular spells even if you had up to level 9 of Auto Quicken? If not, include the Multispell feat as one more that is necessary to take advantage of this feat tree.

Is it just me, or is WotC sorta disregarding its development of Epic materials? I'm sorta wondering if they just want to keep it a fringe element of the game. The complaints about the Epic spell system are numerous and well detailed, and as mentioned, WotC hasn't even updated the SRD to reflect its 3.5 epic changes.

Will we ever see a pure 3.5 ELH, or just more jumbled errata and 3rd pty splat books?

-AoA

 

[the Jester]

There is significant update material for the ELH available on the WotC website, including updates of all the epic feats and monsters. iirc they hit up the spells too.

Also, there is a pittance of epic support in the Complete books and the environment books (both Frostburn and Sandstorm have a couple of epic spells in them, for instance).

It seems to me that WotC is giving epic material roughly the same level of support as they are psionics, though that looks like it's about to change with the release of Complete Psionic in a few months. Maybe a 'Complete Epic' book is in the works? If not, maybe it should be?

And if it is, hopefully they will have suggestions as to how to work around the ridiculous amounts of money assumed to be thrown around in epic play- that is, imho, the worst aspect of epic rules. Who really finds a horde of 1.75 million gold just so the party wizard can research a single epic spell??

 

[Angel of Adventure]

Yeah, the eratta is there, but its not incorporated into the SRD. This makes me think that WotC feels that it isn't worth their while to do this. I can understand the smattering of Epic stuff out there in other books. There might be more if Epic play was a more viable option for gamers. As it is, serious tweaking needs to be done to make it work.

I'd say that, overall, the ELH is about 60% good, 40% bad. The feats and adventuring ideas in there are pretty cool, but the Epic Spell system and treasure/XP reqs for Epic items are hard to incorporate without a mountain of resources.

After looking at both the Epic spell system and the additional slots available via Improved Spell Capacity, you are mostly better off w/ISC. Epic type spells can be created with the right metamagic feats and high enough spell slots.

 

[the Jester]

After looking at both the Epic spell system and the additional slots available via Improved Spell Capacity, you are mostly better off w/ISC. Epic type spells can be created with the right metamagic feats and high enough spell slots.

I actually seem to recall a recent comment by one of the designers where they stated that Epic Spellcasting is really designed to come into its own around 30th level.

Epic spell development costs bring to mind the magic sand stuff from the Sword of Truth books as a potential model for high-value components that aren't worth anything except as far as epic spells go.

 

[Kerrick]

There is significant update material for the ELH available on the WotC website, including updates of all the epic feats and monsters. iirc they hit up the spells too.

Nope. The changes were put into the SRD, but they did a half-rate job - there are "Medium-size" monsters in there, and tons of other mistakes that I can't think off the top of my head. I got bored not too long ago and fixed everything; you can find the revised file here.

maybe you could try to set the DC class of epic spells to reflect certain degree of power. Say for exemple..DC 50 = 10 level; DC 70 = 11 level; DC 90 = 12 level and so on...depending on what level you want to achieve.

The rough coversion factor is to divide the DC by 10 and add 7 - thus, DC 50 = L12, DC 90 = L16, etc. I do have a system that I use; I rewrote the existing system from the ground up, converting it to level-based use along the way. Works a lot better now.

It seems to me that WotC is giving epic material roughly the same level of support as they are psionics...

Yeah, but have you seen some of the new epic spells? My god... they're a joke. Some of them shouldn't be epic at all.

Maybe a 'Complete Epic' book is in the works?

We could always hope, but WotC has pretty much said that they will never do a revision of the ELH (which pretty much precludes a Complete Epic).

I actually seem to recall a recent comment by one of the designers where they stated that Epic Spellcasting is really designed to come into its own around 30th level.

That's only because the spells worth casting can't be cast until you're around 30th level and you can make the Spellcraft checks.