Epic weapon blues

[devilMonkey]

So, I'm considering running a tournament style game where characters will be made original for each session. I want to use epic levels. In order for things to run fairly, I need a standard amount of money to give each character. I've got that solved (more or less to my satisfaction).

The problem is that up until about 30th to 35th level there is no way these characters can afford to buy epic weapons with effective enhancement bonuses over +10. So, what I've been doing is having them buy a +10 regular weapon for 200k GPs and a +6 epic weapon for penetrating epic DR for 720k GPs.

This REALLY bothers me.

The whole x10 value thing for epic items bothers me, but this by far exceeds my other complaints.

Now, to add insult to injury, the Epic Level Handbook lists as one of its specific weapons the Stormbrand. That's a +4 thundering shocking burst greatsword that gives 30 res to elec and sonic and allows the user to fly at will. The cost? 235k!

I don't even see how that's an epic weapon. It doesn't do anything epic. It certainly doesn't cost what an epic weapon should. The only evidence that I have that it is epic is that it's in the ELH.

So, I've been giving this to my epic fighters, but I can't really make a finesse fighter if a greatsword is the only weapon he can afford. And it bothers me because it's cheating. That weapon either shouldn't be epic or should cost more.

How do I get my characters REAL epic weapons without giving them GOBS of money. Are there more of these cheatingly cheap weapons? Should I use them? What's a fellow to do?

Some other things that have been bothering me:
There are some other cheating looking magic items. Celestial armor (every non-mage, non-heavy fighter over 10th level has a suit) and its epic equivalent (armor of the celestial bastion) spring to mind.

And are there rules by which you could make things like celestial armor (lighten heavy armor) or have an item give a bonus to caster level like the robe of the archmagi does? And what would be their non-cheating cost.

Is Command Word activation supposed to be a free action? Are you seriously supposed to be able to put it into a balanced magic item for only caster lvl x spell lvl x 1.8k GPs? That seems WAY too low. I've been multiplying the cost by 4 just like you do with continuous use items.

 

[Goolpsy]

A suggested starting amount is in the Epic handbook

The thing about epic, is that you get acces to insane abilities and you otherwise would be able to buy at a low level... thats why the x10..

 

[Cabral]

Isn't a +6 weapon (+6 with no special abilities) an epic weapon?

 

[devilMonkey]

Yeah, a weapon with a +6 enhancement bonus is an epic weapon. I'm not sure what you mean.

A weapon with a +6 ehancement bonus and no special abilities isn't as powerful as a +10 non-epic magic weapon. Except that it will penetrate DR -/epic. That's exactly what bothers me. I want my epic weapons to be better than non-epic weapons. It seems really counterintuitive for them not to be.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Is Command Word activation supposed to be a free action? Are you seriously supposed to be able to put it into a balanced magic item for only caster lvl x spell lvl x 1.8k GPs? That seems WAY too low. I've been multiplying the cost by 4 just like you do with continuous use items.

Standard action, I believe.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Is Command Word activation supposed to be a free action? Are you seriously supposed to be able to put it into a balanced magic item for only caster lvl x spell lvl x 1.8k GPs? That seems WAY too low. I've been multiplying the cost by 4 just like you do with continuous use items.

It's a Standard Action. And although the rules say nothing about making it cost more, I do exactly what you do- after all, why is it that an item that has a continuous effect can cost as much as 4x the normal cost, whereas an item that simply has to be re-activated every few minutes (taking a measly standard action), achieving the exact same effect, doesn't cost 4x as much? Seriously. Sure, it should cost less- since you have to spend an action every now and then- but that's what the 1800 achieves (as opposed to 2000 for a continuous item). There's absolutely no reason not to apply the duration-based multipliers for a command-activated item if you're gonna apply it to a continuous item.

 

[FireLance]

Well, a whole lot of issues to address. I'll try to deal with each.

x10 costs for Epic Magic Items
I personally agree that it's a clunky mechanic. I think it was put in place so that non-epic characters can get access to +8 belts of giant strength and +6 weapons, which would otherwise cost 64,000 gp and 72,000 gp respectively. A more complicated but satisfying solution (at least for me) would be that characters have to be of a minimum character level to receive the full benefit of epic-level items, e.g. a +8 belt of giant strength only functions as a +6 belt of giant strength for anyone less than 21st level. Of course, the treasure values would have to be adjusted accordingly, but I'm not familiar enough with high-level play to suggest how they should be changed.

Cost of Stormbrand
Stormbrand is an epic magic item only because its market price exceeds 200,000 gp after excluding the cost of the base masterwork weapon. None of its other characteristics exceed the bonus that a non-epic magic item could grant, so the x10 factor doesn't come into play. In particular, it doesn't overcome DR x/epic because its enhancement bonus is less than +6.

Items that Seem Too Cheap
You ought to have a better idea of what's balanced in your game than the WotC designers. If certain magic items seem too cheap to you, feel free to increase the cost or restrict your players from purchasing these items.

Command-activated Items
As noted by John Q. Mayhem and Ultimagabe, activating a command-activated item is a standard action. I agree that if you had a command-activated item that could be used an unlimited number of times per day, you should probably adjust the cost as if it was a continuous item. However, I personally feel that imposing a daily use limit is the best way to balance such items. To get the market price for such items, divide the base price by 5 and multiply by the number of uses per day, so a command-activated item that duplicates a 1st-level spell cast by a 1st-level spellcaster once per day would cost 360 gp (1 x 1 x 1,800 gp / 5).

It's often pointed out that the magic item pricing formulas are only guidelines, and the DM still has to exercise judgement and change the price or disallow items that will be unbalanced.

 

[devilMonkey]

I appreciate all of you guys' input. Really, you did great. I was glad to hear that other people have encountered this same idea (namely that command word magic items should have approximately the same cost as continuous use items). Limiting the uses per day is an equally good idea.

The problem with "DM Rules" for my particular predicament is that I'm running a tournament game, in which I intend to participate. So, in effect, there is no DM. I need an impartial system. One that can be applied in, at least almost, every case.

I appreciate your input. You've been a great help.

 

[Patlin]

Penetrate epic DR on the cheep: +4 Bane weapons.

For example, a +4 evil outider bane/magical beast bane/undead bane/abberation bane rapier would cost the same as any other +8 equivalent non-epic weapon and yet penetrate epic DR on those four types.

Also, most epic fighters could probably power attack and shrug off a -15 to damage as relatively unimportant. 2d4+83 looks a lot like 2d4+68 in the grand scheme of things.