Epic Woes

[Camelot]

I don't think anything in the game is broken until it's been updated. I play with the assumption that the game works, then I don't need to spend the work it takes to make sure it does. Yeah, I'm lazy...but I think its just a difference of tastes: intelligent balance or creative adaptation.

As for the +40 compared to +10...The thing is, no option is that blatantly off balance.

I just don't think you should spend too much time researching which options are more powerful than which; that's the player's responsibility. If you notice that an option is too powerful or too weak while you're playing, it's my gaming style to work it in so that it balances. Though changing the option to fit other options is a completely viable way to go, adapting to the option works just as well, just differently.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

The Lord of Fate ED in Arcane power has a level 21 power called Turnabout that I think might cause a lot of problems: when you roll initiative, designate one creature you can see as the target of turnabout. Until the end of the encounter, any condition it imposes as a result of an attack power is also imposed on the target.

I've never seen it in play though, so it may not be so much trouble.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

The Lord of Fate ED in Arcane power has a level 21 power called Turnabout that I think might cause a lot of problems: when you roll initiative, designate one creature you can see as the target of turnabout. Until the end of the encounter, any condition it imposes as a result of an attack power is also imposed on the target.

I've never seen it in play though, so it may not be so much trouble.

Which forces the question - are 'dead' and 'dying' conditions and if so, could they be forced back on the enemy under turnabout? I would rule 'no' at my table, but I suspect one could make a legitimate argument for it by RAW.

Edit: And do the conditions have to be negative? The power lists "creature", so perhaps I could toss this on the party cleric and have him buff himself with various things like regeneration and damage resistance?

 

[IanB]

Which forces the question - are 'dead' and 'dying' conditions and if so, could they be forced back on the enemy under turnabout? I would rule 'no' at my table, but I suspect one could make a legitimate argument for it by RAW.

Edit: And do the conditions have to be negative? The power lists "creature", so perhaps I could toss this on the party cleric and have him buff himself with various things like regeneration and damage resistance?

I'm not sure that it matters re: dead or dying. Those conditions are not inflicted on someone directly by an attack power - no attack power I'm aware of has a line like:

Hit: 4 [W] + Strength and target is dying

 

[DracoSuave]

Actually Dying -is- a condition, but it is ended by being above 0 hit points. So transfering dying to someone with more than 0 hit points doesn't actually do anything, the dying condition ends immediately on them, and then the dying condition is reapplied to yourself by dint of you being below 0 hit points without being stabilized.

The -most- this would accomplish is to knock someone prone.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

Well, a good exercise in semantics, then. BTW Draco, you are a logic machine recently, bustin' through these threads and layin' down the science. Getting tired yet?

 

[Dr_Sage]

I'm not sure that it matters re: dead or dying. Those conditions are not inflicted on someone directly by an attack power - no attack power I'm aware of has a line like:

Hit: 4 [W] + Strength and target is dying

I agree with this argument.

I would not agree with someone using an Orb of Unlucky Exchanges to auto-kill someone for example. Its ugly to say the least!

 

[Marshall]

Isn't that just like saying:

"I don't know what you guys are eating, but most foods taste incredibly bad. Tacos (and by extension the other Mexican foods sharing the same ingredients) are mostly decent."

Yes, but it also means that your PoV is bass-ackwards. Its not that Demigod is overpowered, its that Lorekeeper and others like it are under powered to the point of irrelevancy. Archspell? Immanence? Revered One? Other than the "When you die..." powers these are weak paragon paths...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Yes, but it also means that your PoV is bass-ackwards. Its not that Demigod is overpowered, its that Lorekeeper and others like it are under powered to the point of irrelevancy. Archspell? Immanence? Revered One? Other than the "When you die..." powers these are weak paragon paths...

Demigod isn't broken simply because it's more powerful than other options. It's broken because it directly goes up against one of the core mechanics of the game: it encourages people to find one overpowered encounter power and spam it, which is basically what the entire 3-tier power reuse system was designed to avoid.

I'd like to put a hand up for reborn champion (from dragon IIRC). It gives a standard action whenever you crit, which pretty much leads inevitably to one-turn-kill combos.

 

[keterys]

Level 30 of demigod, and its clones when applicable, is indeed broken. If you intend to go to 30, just deal with that ahead of time.

Demigod also hedges out the viability of a majority of the epic destinies. Take it out and you've got a lot more real choices. It is totally true that the other EDs could have been made at a higher valuation, but all that really matters is how they compare to each other, and lack of choice is never a good thing.