[Epic] Would you allow this?

['o Skoteinos]

The situation: a high level epic campaign, level 32. There is a Wizard who has his own demiplane (through Genisis) and who is fairly safe there.

This Wizard, like any other, is quite smart, and has figured out a way to research Epic Spells for a rediculously low cost:

He first makes his Epic Spell. It's a boost spell, which is strong, but within the bounds of the Fortify Seed.

He then adds a factor "10 Casters must contribute a 9th level spell slot", thus reducing the DC by 170(!).

This Wizard then proceeds to cast Maximized Simulacrum. 10 Times. He has spent 10.000 XP instead of (170 * 9.000)/25 XP (He has saved 51.200 XP).

And in the future, he can research any non offensive spell with the same requirement of "10 9th level slots".

So, would you allow this?

 

[Hypersmurf]

This Wizard then proceeds to cast Maximized Simulacrum. 10 Times.

Careful... that way lies madness...

-Hyp.

 

['o Skoteinos]

Ok, insert a rule where a simulacrum can be never be more powerful than it's creator.

 

[drnuncheon]

Sure. He's not always going to have his 10 simulacrums with him. If he takes them with him they're vulnerable, and if he leaves them on his demiplane he doesn't have them to cast the spells. If one of them dies, he's got to recreate them. He can't research epic spells that would cost them XP. Unlike getting (say) 10 wizard cohorts or hirelings, they will never increase in level, knowledge, or power, making them even more vulnerable as the main wizard raises in level and goes against more powerful foes.

J

 

[Vecna]

He could use a Rod of Epic Spellcasting (I don't remember the exact name) to avoid the XP cost of the simulacra.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I know it's not how the spell is written, but I allow sims only to be used as clever role-playing gimmicks. (IMC, the Vecnans were replacing members of the royal family with Sims). My house-rule is that Sims cannot cast spells or fight in any effective way.

And the spell can still be badly abused by creative players.

Even if I did let sims cast spells, I would put a cap of 20 on their level. It takes an Epic-level spell to duplicate an epic-level caster. It only makes sense.

 

[Hypersmurf]

My house-rule is that Sims cannot cast spells or fight in any effective way.

Ooh... after reading that sentence, I have a new house rule - all simulacra talk in gibberish, and little thought bubbles with icons of the topic of conversation appear above their heads...

-Hyp.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

In terms of balance, Simulacrum is as powerful as Harm, IMO. So, you might want to house rule them both, or assume both of them are balanced, especially at epic levels.

 

[The Souljourner]

NOthing says you can't have hirelings or cohorts or followers or other friendly NPCs help you cast epic level spells. In fact, that's a damn good idea, wish I had thought of it myself.

At least with Simulacrum you have to pay XP to cast it. With hirelings, you just need money, and with followers, you don't even need that. So... I don't think it's that bad, although I can definitely see how simulacrum could be an abusive spell.

-The Souljourner

 

[Saeviomagy]

1. Notice that he said 'any non-offensive spell', so the guy isn't even intending to use this to blast people. He never needs the simulacra to leave his pocket dimension.

2. He's not actually using the primary simulacrum abuse method (ie - that of empowering simulacrum to create simulacra of full power).

My conclusion - he's got a fantastic tactic there, one that every wizard should use. I'd suggest putting a cap on the number of assistant wizards which can contribute slots to power epic spells (to prevent ludicrously powerful freebie spells), but beyond that, his epic spells all have a substantial weakness in exchange for a substantial benefit. That being that he has to return to his sanctum to cast any of these spells, and he has to have the clones available. An enemy could easily exploit that weakness.