D&D 3E/3.5 Essence of 3E DND

[evildmguy]

Okay! This is good!

Thanks for the reply everyone!

We have many things of this and I think we have more to go.

Skills - obviously a part of the game. Some do more with them than other but all do use them.

Feats - pretty much the same as skills. Some use them more than others and they help customize a character.

Here are some others:

Spells - mostly static that do specific things. Might scale certain effects with level but overall, what the spell does doesn't change with level. Effects can be modified by feats. Effects can also be modified by items.

Combat - Heroic. Characters generally don't have to worry about dying from one blow. Armor makes it tough to damage an opponent. Hit points, which are a relative measure of how much damage can be taken, are used to show damage to characters.

Equipment - Important part of DND. Equipment helps define the character. Some equipment requires abilities before they can be used. Only so many of each type of equipment can be worn. Not all pieces of equipment work with each other or stack.

Style - This is the tough one. Below 6th level (arbitrarily chosen) play has a different style. Here is where it is an exception to not die (or go below 0 hit points) in one blow, especially at 1st and 2nd levels. Also, in general, the game mechanics favor being cautious. Characters are not as diverse as they haven't had as many choices.

Between 6th and 13th level, style again changes. A few more chances are taken as character won't die easily. Skills used have a fair chance of failure. Characters are more diverse, depending on the choices they have made with skills and feats.

At higher than 13th level, style seems to change again. Skills rolls of 25+ are common. The modifier becomes more important than the die roll. Spells do exist that can kill a character on the roll of one die. Characters are potential extremely diverse, depending on the choices they have made.

Monsters - Have attribute scores. Can advance, either by character class or HD but have "average" specimens. Have skills and feats. Have special abilities. Lot easier to know what a monster can and can't do based on skills and feats.

Treasure - scales in proportion to encounter which scales to the level of the characters. The higher than encounter, the better the treasure.

Addendum to style:

Monsters and treasure both scale with the characters levels. To gain XP means to fight someone of near the same level or XP isn't much. Same for treasure. Treasure of a monster several levels below the character's levels is probably not worth it to them.

This does create the game mechanic situation where the DM *can* create (but probably wouldn't) a situation which is undefeatable to the characters. This can happen by accident. (For example, not noticing DR on a creature when the characters have no magic weapons.) by the rules, no player group should meet an encounter of more than 2 levels higher than the player group's average. (This is obviously a fuzzy area.)

Anything else anyone can think of?

edg

 

[evildmguy]

CHA vs WIS

Good discussion! Thanks!

I still think, by Destil's definitions, which are quite good, that divine casters should use CHA and Sorcerers (and maybe even wizards) should use WIS.

A faith's power is only as good as it can be spread, which would be CHA based. I understand the argument that the vassal of that faith needs to control it and it is done via WIS. I still think the ability of a cleric to outwordly affect someone else is more CHA.

WIS, then, if defined as willpower (which I like), would be good for controlling magic. It is the will of the caster as she tries to control the magic and make it do what she wants. INT is the ability to learn spells but not control the magic.

In the end, what DND has done works. This could always be done differently in any person's campaign. Perhaps what I am saying is that the definitions of both attributes and magic and the interaction between needs some work? Does anyone know if this has been clarified more?

Thanks!

edg

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Perhaps, CHA is how something is said by the *character* regardless of how the *player* said it. So, if the player said, "back off!" maybe the high CHA character said, "Let's just calm down and have a drink." while the low CHA character said, "Get the f**k out of my f*****g face, you . . ." Does that work?

That's how I consider CHA works.
Unluckily, not everyone does that. Amongst those are several of my DM's, all AD&D dinosaurs who say that it all has to be "roleplayed". In truth, it's just eliminating CHA as a game mechanic and equaling it with physical beauty (bust measurement). That's people who play characters with CHA 8 who act like the best diplomats.
Funny enough, other ability scores aren't treated the same. I never have to "hit the DM" in order to find out whether I hit that enemy. But I have to convince the DM if I want my character succeed in his bluff against that watchman.

It's really frustrating to play a character with high CHA (which would have been nice as CON score) and maxed-out diplomacy (+ a synergy bonus + a clan bonus) who is no better in manipulating others than that dwarfen fighter without diplomacy and CHA 11.

Races - ? Not sure on this one. Still have the generic fantasy races that DND has always had. Mechanically, they are little easier to deal with. For example, I like low-light better than the old infravision. Not sure about preferred class and the XP penalty. I don't know of many other d20 systems, if any, that are using it.

Low-light Vision and Darkvision are more logical than the old infravision.

Rolling - simplified. Task resolution always equals d20 and always want high for all rolls.

Yea, AD&D was a pain in the ***. I remember having to ask "high or low" every roll when I started, and I see it with new players in AD&D-games (I have to play with blokes who actually think AD&D is better and thing that the lenghty ability score tables are better than the simple score/bonus system. But there's also that they can't speak english, and there's almost no German Stuff, and they also have bought lots of 2e stuff and don't want it to be useless).