D&D 4E Essential 4e: Heroes of the Forgotten Lands

[Andramelech]

Total noob question:
Does this book attempt to replace the PHB? Is this 4.5 in disguise? From the description it makes it sound like it just gives you more options, like the Dragon born book or whatever. But why does everyone want this book so bad? I can understand the rules compedium to help you find rules fast. And I can understand the DM essentials (If you don't already own a DMG).

I guess more options are always better, but I don't usually buy every book that comes out for a system. Are they going to do the other classes too: Heroes of happiness, Heroes of stupidity, Heroes of redundancy?

I'm still learning the game, so, should I stop studying the PHB and buy all the Heroes series of books instead? Should I pass on the PHB 2 and 3?

If I don't buy these books, will I be playing with out of date rules?

 

[nightwalker450]

Total noob question:
Does this book attempt to replace the PHB? Is this 4.5 in disguise? From the description it makes it sound like it just gives you more options, like the Dragon born book or whatever. But why does everyone want this book so bad? I can understand the rules compedium to help you find rules fast. And I can understand the DM essentials (If you don't already own a DMG).

I guess more options are always better, but I don't usually buy every book that comes out for a system. Are they going to do the other classes too: Heroes of happiness, Heroes of stupidity, Heroes of redundancy?

I'm still learning the game, so, should I stop studying the PHB and buy all the Heroes series of books instead? Should I pass on the PHB 2 and 3?

If I don't buy these books, will I be playing with out of date rules?

You should buy as many as you can afford.. Just kidding, but many do. Passing any of the PHB's (including Essentials), will just leave you with less options. There has been errata applied to the players handbook that is included in HotFL, but its also in the Rules Compendium. So you could say some rules are out of date in the Player's Handbook, but you can find them all online as well. As to what you're missing in each:
PHB2 - Primal Classes (Druid, Warden, Barbarian, Shaman) also (Avenger, Invoker, Sorcerer, Bard)
PHB3 - Psionic Classes (Monk, Psion, Ardent, Battlemind) also (Runepriest, Seeker)

Martial Power - New Fighter/Rogue/Ranger/Warlord Builds
Arcane Power - New Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard/Swordmage
....
Hero of the Fallen Lands - New Fighter/Cleric/Rogue/Wizard Builds

Each book adds more options. You can browse the online Compendium to see what's in which book, but it takes a subscription to see details for some books. If you're still learning and you're with an experienced group or not having any difficulties currently, you're probably good with what you have. If you're learning with an inexperienced group, you might find the Heroes book to be better written for learning. The Essentials line as I've heard is written with a lot fewer expectations of the reader, and made for someone with 0 experience to be able to pick up the game. And from my experience of playing with the Red Box, they do a decent job at it.

 

[tuxgeo]

1) Do you have to have proficiency in an implement to use the new expertise feats or is there a feat that grants access to an implement that your class doesn't normally use?

2) Any feats for Sehanine followers?

Dragon magazine had an entire article for Sehanine followers a couple of months ago.

April 2010: Dragon 386, "Channel Divinity: Sehanine Arrows from the Moonbow" by Klaus: Backgrounds, Omens and Rites, Feats, and a Paragon Path. (My personal favorite out of that article was the "Moon Strike" feat, which lets attacks made with Combat Advantage count as silvered. Think of all the beast-form Druids with their silvered claws, tusks, fangs, spines, talons, beaks, etc. . . .)

This leads me to believe that we probably won't see any other CD: Sehanine article for many months to come. That would allow some of Klaus' themes to fade from memory fully enough to allow the next author of a CD: Sehanine article to return to earlier strains of flavor (if desired), such as these:
1. In 2E, Sehanine favors the Quarterstaff, not the Shortbow -- the "bow" in her nickname originally referred to the dispersal of moonlight by fog or mist;
2. The Moon represents sensitivity, so Insight is at least as important to her as Stealth and Thievery are;
3. What about the "Moon Wisp" familiar from Stephen Radney-MacFarland's "Arcane's Gloaming Path" article in Dragon 382? That's clearly about Sehanine, and it has more explicit crunch than Klaus' "sparkling falcon" familiars;
4. In 3E, Sehanine's main grudge is against Lycanthropes, and secondly against Undead, not especially against Drow. (The Forgotten Realms had a Moon Domain about that.)

 

[mkill]

Total noob question:
Does this book attempt to replace the PHB? Is this 4.5 in disguise?

Yes it is. The good news is that D&D 4.5 forces you to rebuy your D&D library in the same way that Firefox 3.5 forced you to rebuy the Internet.

But why does everyone want this book so bad?

It sounds like it has some cool stuff in it.

I'm still learning the game, so, should I stop studying the PHB and buy all the Heroes series of books instead? Should I pass on the PHB 2 and 3?

As you like. If you're happy with the stuff in PHB1 you don't need to buy another book. At least you can stave that off until you have some cash to spend and feel like owning more of D&D. But nobody will blame you if you buy minis instead.

If I don't buy these books, will I be playing with out of date rules?

Who cares if you play with "outdated" rules. If you follow Mike Mearl's blog (one of the developers), you'll notice that he talks about playing with even more outdated rules, like 2nd edition. And hey, why not? The game was fun back then, too, just different. The only thing that matters is that you know which version of the rules your group uses. Ask your DM.

 

[The Human Target]

Total noob question:
Does this book attempt to replace the PHB? Is this 4.5 in disguise? From the description it makes it sound like it just gives you more options, like the Dragon born book or whatever. But why does everyone want this book so bad? I can understand the rules compedium to help you find rules fast. And I can understand the DM essentials (If you don't already own a DMG).

I guess more options are always better, but I don't usually buy every book that comes out for a system. Are they going to do the other classes too: Heroes of happiness, Heroes of stupidity, Heroes of redundancy?

I'm still learning the game, so, should I stop studying the PHB and buy all the Heroes series of books instead? Should I pass on the PHB 2 and 3?

If I don't buy these books, will I be playing with out of date rules?

You'll be much better off subscribing to DDI.

 

[thalmin]

The Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Rules Compendium, Dungeon Tiles Master Set the Dungeon have all arrived and will go on sale tomorrow, Friday Sept 10. Demo Copies are availabe for viewing at our store now.

 

[AntlerDruid]

April 2010: Dragon 386, "Channel Divinity: Sehanine Arrows from the Moonbow" by Klaus: Backgrounds, Omens and Rites, Feats, and a Paragon Path. (My personal favorite out of that article was the "Moon Strike" feat, which lets attacks made with Combat Advantage count as silvered. Think of all the beast-form Druids with their silvered claws, tusks, fangs, spines, talons, beaks, etc. . . .)

This leads me to believe that we probably won't see any other CD: Sehanine article for many months to come. That would allow some of Klaus' themes to fade from memory fully enough to allow the next author of a CD: Sehanine article to return to earlier strains of flavor (if desired), such as these:
1. In 2E, Sehanine favors the Quarterstaff, not the Shortbow -- the "bow" in her nickname originally referred to the dispersal of moonlight by fog or mist;
2. The Moon represents sensitivity, so Insight is at least as important to her as Stealth and Thievery are;
3. What about the "Moon Wisp" familiar from Stephen Radney-MacFarland's "Arcane's Gloaming Path" article in Dragon 382? That's clearly about Sehanine, and it has more explicit crunch than Klaus' "sparkling falcon" familiars;
4. In 3E, Sehanine's main grudge is against Lycanthropes, and secondly against Undead, not especially against Drow. (The Forgotten Realms had a Moon Domain about that.)

Yep saw it - it was a fantastic article!

I think I saw someone mention there was a new Avandra feat in the Essentials book so I just wondered if my favorite "good/unaligned" goddess Sehanine also received a new feat.

Are there any Eladrin only racial feats in the Essentials book?

 

[Nahat Anoj]

This leads me to believe that we probably won't see any other CD: Sehanine article for many months to come. That would allow some of Klaus' themes to fade from memory fully enough to allow the next author of a CD: Sehanine article to return to earlier strains of flavor (if desired), such as these:
1. In 2E, Sehanine favors the Quarterstaff, not the Shortbow -- the "bow" in her nickname originally referred to the dispersal of moonlight by fog or mist;
2. The Moon represents sensitivity, so Insight is at least as important to her as Stealth and Thievery are;
3. What about the "Moon Wisp" familiar from Stephen Radney-MacFarland's "Arcane's Gloaming Path" article in Dragon 382? That's clearly about Sehanine, and it has more explicit crunch than Klaus' "sparkling falcon" familiars;
4. In 3E, Sehanine's main grudge is against Lycanthropes, and secondly against Undead, not especially against Drow. (The Forgotten Realms had a Moon Domain about that.)

I think you're in for a disappointment. 4e gods are their own thing, and while they may have similarities to their counterparts in earlier editions, there is no guarantee all similarities will transfer over to the current edition.

Somewhat related to a putative Moon domain for Essentials clerics, does the book mention that other Domains are forthcoming? Does it mention anything about domains other than Sun and Storm?

 

[jelmore]

I just called my FLPGS (Friendly Local Premier Game Store) and they said they are selling Heroes of the Fallen Lands RIGHT NOW. So those of you with Premier Stores in the area might find it worthwhile to call.

(And If you take the last copy before I get there, I'm gonna shiv somebody... )

 

[tuxgeo]

I think you're in for a disappointment. 4e gods are their own thing, and while they may have similarities to their counterparts in earlier editions, there is no guarantee all similarities will transfer over to the current edition.

Re: Disappointment: S'alright--I'm used to it by now.
If I devoutly wanted it done my way, I would likely have to write it myself, wouldn't I?
(I doubt that WotC would accept any article from me. At least, they shouldn't: I haven't played 4E yet; which is due to change is a couple of days, as I have signed up to play in a local Red Box Game Day event. With that kind of lack of experience, it would really be some kind of uphill climb for me to get anything into Dragon.)

Somewhat related to a putative Moon domain for Essentials clerics, does the book mention that other Domains are forthcoming? Does it mention anything about domains other than Sun and Storm?

Seconded. I'ld love to hear any available news about upcoming Warpriest domain features beyond Sun and Storm.