Essential Feats?

[Darkness]

Yep, that's exactly it. If you house rule it to apply to all attacks, it ceases to be weak, though.

I've been thinking about doing that but I'm still pondering the balance details...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as an 'essential' feat, even for each class. There are just too many possibilities among the classes.

I try to build effective characters. I consider a feat "must-have" when not taking it unjustifiably weakens the character. Sure, nobody has to take any of the feats I mentioned, but not taking them means having a significantly weaker character to such a degree that I do everything possible to find room for the mentioned feat if possible.

You'd be amazed at how many Druids I've seen(and played) that don't focus on Wild Shape enough to have any use for that.

And they're the weaker for it. Not all people build their character with power in mind. There are an infinite number of roleplaying reasons not to take a particular feat. But making that choice means choosing to be significantly weaker. Which is all well and good. I agree that if you're building a character with roleplaying as your only priority, there are no must-have feats. Only when you're trying to build an efficient/powerful character do must-have feats exist. For the druid, you must have Natural Spell to get the most out of the class.

Archer isn't even a Core Class! But obviously, Point Blank Shot is pretty much a needed feat for an archer

I didn't start out meaning to make a list of the core classes, just concepts that had must-have components. It's funny that you mention Point-Blank but not Precise. I only added Point-Blank because it's a prerequisite for Precise. +1 isn't much, especially for an archer. It's negating that -4 for firing into melee that's absolutely essential for any serious archer.

Interesting choice, though I doubt many people actually would take this as a Fighter. Its a great thing to boost that low Will save, but there are 'better' choices for Fighters out there.

By mid-levels, every fighter should have Iron Will. No choice is better. There are simply too many spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that target Will and completely screw the Fighter. I suppose an aberrant fighter with a very high Wisdom score might not need it, but nearly every fighter I've ever seen has had a low Wisdom, and of course Will is a weak save for fighters. Iron Will is a must.

If there's enough time to stop and craft something in the campaign, sure. Most campaigns I've been involved in, people just plain don't want to take the time. Spell Penetration seems like it would be much more useful.

I agree that if you never have the time to craft, a craft feat isn't going to be a must-have. In a campaign that allows time for crafting, though, Craft Wondrous Item beats Spell Penetration, twice on Sundays. Getting your items for half-price is insanely good, and there are dozens of Wondrous Items that a sly wizard will want. Spell Penetration is no slouch, but if you have the time CWI cannot be passed up.

I don't think this is possible anymore. I seem to remember that Energy Sub in CA doesn't allow Sonic now...

Really... I didn't know that. Nice change. I'd probably go with Energy Substitution: Cold, then. Few things are resistant to both Fire and Cold...

Not all Clerics have to be healers and shouldn't be forced into that role either. Clerics have about as many insane amount of options to go as Fighters do, and its just as hard to pick an 'essential' feat for them.

I disagree. A cleric doesn't have to be a healer, or "forced into that role" for Augmented Healing to be a must have. Clerics are going to cast healing spells fairly often, even if they're combat-oriented. Augmented Healing is so powerful, especially when you have access to the Mass Cure spells, that it simply cannot be passed up. A cleric will still have dozens of options, even after he's spent a feat to pick up Augmented Healing.

Now that's a Good one[/pun]...if the characters are Good and Exalted stuff is allowed in the game. But then again, why not something to get more uses out of Bard Songs?

Do you know what Words of Creation does?! A bard is going to have plenty of uses of bard song. He gets one per day per level. After 5th-level or so he's going to be good for the day most of the time. Words of Creation doubles the effectiveness of Inspire Courage, as well as strengthening other abilities. At 8th-level that means the bard can provide a +4 to attack and damage, for everyone, with any weapon. At 20th-level it's +8!

Barbarians usually do insane damage WITHOUT Power Attack...though of course, adding to that is always nice.

Not just nice. Essential.

Paladins getting two is no fair. They're already stuck with MAD, now they have two essential feats?!

Power Attack is listed only because it's a prereq for Divine Might. A paladin will need it to do fair damage.

If there's one feat out that that MIGHT have use for every single class/build out there...it'd be Dodge.

...

I think the two of us are playing two completely different games. Dodge is pretty much the farthest you can get from a must-have feat in my mind...

 

[Thanee]

Archers: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot

Rapid Shot!

Fighters: Iron Will

Too few people really realize this.

I'd also add Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialisation.

Wizards: Craft Wondrous Item

Not really. Great feat, but hardly a must-have.

Sorcerers: Energy Substitution (Sonic)

Not possible. And even then... nope.

Clerics: Augmented Healing

Not even close.

Bards: Words of Creation

Not overly familiar with the BoED, are those any good?

Barbarians: Power Attack

Well... not really, but yes, for the archetypical barbarian at least.

Paladins: Power Attack, Divine Might

That sounds pretty reasonable, too.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Rapid Shot!

You can be a decent archer without Rapid Shot, though I'm not really arguing that it isn't either must-have or nearly so. It's just that, without Rapid Shot an archer can survive. Without Precise Shot...just not possible.

Not really. Great feat, but hardly a must-have.

I disagree. For a paltry xp cost, the massive gp savings of this feat is phenomenal. You'll have so much more equipment than the rest of the party it's not even funny. If the DM allows for downtime, it's a must-have. If not, not.

Not possible. And even then... nope.

I disagree. A sorcerer's limited spell selection makes having different energy types available difficult, and the best boom spells in the game are all fire. Scorching Ray, Fireball, Meteor Swarm... Being able to avoid strong resistances or target weaknesses is crucial in the mid- to high-level game.

Not even close.

Elder-Basilisk did a great summation of the power of Augmented Healing some time ago, do you remember reading it? Suffice it to say it's wildly powerful. Not just close, absolutely essential. In fact, getting Augmented Healing means the cleric can spend less time being a healer, because each of his healing spells will be much more powerful.

Not overly familiar with the BoED, are those any good?

Words of Creation is an extremely powerful choice for bards. At the cost of some nonlethal damage (not too much in the case of Inspire Courage,) it allows a bard to double the effect of his Bardic Music. This is useful from level one, and just gets better as the bard gains access to higher-level bardic music effects.

Well... not really, but yes, for the archetypical barbarian at least.

Again, mid- to high-levels is where I find this feat essential. I suppose I could downgrade this to "nearly essential" though.

 

[Darkness]

Not overly familiar with the BoED, are those any good?

In a word, yes.

WoC (Int 15, Cha 15, base Will +5, Exalted) has four uses, usable at will but there is usually be a cost.

Celestial Choir: Enhances bardic music. The bard takes 1d4 nonlethal dmg per rank in Perform the ability he uses requires (e.g., fascinate 3d4, suggestion 9d4, song of freedom 15d4, etc.). Celestial Choir then generally doubles the effect of the ability (e.g., inspire heroics gives +8 morale on saves and +8 dodge on AC).

Creation: Non-instantaneous Conjuration (Creation) spells have doubled duration. Alternatively, gain +4 on any Craft skill check. Neither Creation effect has a cost to the character.

Exalted Power: Good spells with a verbal component get a +1 sacred bonus to CL. Same thing with items of this kind you create, at no extra gp/xp cost. Enhancing a spell this way does 1d4 nonlethal per 2 spell levels, rounded down (so lvl 0-1 spells are free). Doing it to items is free.

True Name: If you have researched someone's true name (legend lore + either contact other plane or commune, plus time and gold - HD/2 weeks, 1k gp per week - and a successful Knowledge check or the effort is wasted), you can do some very nasty stuff to them, as a full-round action doing 5d4 nonlethal to you. Examples are being able to cast teleport on them without having to including yourself as a target, or reducing their SR by 4 for a minute.

 

[Darkness]

Elder-Basilisk did a great summation of the power of Augmented Healing some time ago, do you remember reading it? Suffice it to say it's wildly powerful. Not just close, absolutely essential. In fact, getting Augmented Healing means the cleric can spend less time being a healer, because each of his healing spells will be much more powerful

Yeah, well. It's +2 hp per spell level, IIRC.

So if you cure crit at CL 7 (4d8+7), you get a further 8 hp back. A cure light at that CL cures 9.5. So it's almost an extra 1st-level spell each time you cast it at that level.

Mass cure serious, CL 13, heals 3d8+13 plus a further 14 hp because of the feat.
40.5 instead of 26.5 is a 52% boost in power.

Nice.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Mass cure serious, CL 13, heals 3d8+13 plus a further 14 hp because of the feat.
40.5 instead of 26.5 is a 52% boost in power.

Per person. So in a standard 4 person party, that's 56 extra points of healing per casting.

 

[Thanee]

@Lord Pendragon: I think you confuse "very powerful" with "essential".

A wizard does not need Craft Wondrous Item, just because it's powerful. If so, then every character would need Leadership, the arguably most powerful feat in all D&D. Every arcane spellcaster would need the Snowcasting/Cold Pentration crap, because it's cool ( ) if your spells go right through any energy resistance and even partially through immunity.

There are many powerful choices... but essential is more than just powerful.

Anyways... about Precise Shot vs. Rapid Shot - I actually would pick Rapid Shot over Precise Shot, if I could have only one of these. Why? Not that Precise Shot isn't great, but it's often possible to shoot targets not in melee, so the -4 penalty can be circumvented otherwise. Rapid Shot always gives an advantage, and a rather huge one, too.

Normally, I'd just want to have both, tho.

And Augment Healing? Sure, it's good, but it costs a feat. Clerics do not have a lot of those. Healing spells are very good already, there really is no need for this feat, even tho it is quite powerful for sure.

Also Energy Substitution... so every sorcerer needs to be a "blaster type" caster? And even then, you normally have spells of a different energy type, so the effect of the feat is already lessened. It's good for sure, but just not essential.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

@Lord Pendragon: I think you confuse "very powerful" with "essential".

No, I believe "very powerful" is "essential." Either to shore up a weakness or enhance a strength, a feat is "essential" because it's too powerful not to have it.

A wizard does not need Craft Wondrous Item, just because it's powerful. If so, then every character would need Leadership, the arguably most powerful feat in all D&D. Every arcane spellcaster would need the Snowcasting/Cold Pentration crap, because it's cool ( ) if your spells go right through any energy resistance and even partially through immunity.

Leadership is a special case, because it adds a lot of logistics and plot problems along with its power boost. I'm not familiar with Snowcasting. Frostburn, I assume? Haven't gotten to look at it.

Anyways... about Precise Shot vs. Rapid Shot - I actually would pick Rapid Shot over Precise Shot, if I could have only one of these. Why? Not that Precise Shot isn't great, but it's often possible to shoot targets not in melee, so the -4 penalty can be circumvented otherwise. Rapid Shot always gives an advantage, and a rather huge one, too.

Perhaps it's a matter of campaign style, then. In my experience, there are usually far more foes that close to melee than those that stay at range. And the ones that stay at range (spellcasters) often have defenses against ranged attacks themselves. So the archer with Rapid instead of Precise can fire two arrows at the spellcaster until he kills him...then take a -4 to all his other shots. That's a massive penalty far greater than the extra shot against the spellcaster, IMO. Avoiding targets in melee also means you can't concentrate your offense, targetting the same guys as the melee folks to take foes down faster. Which means less efficiency as a whole, also.

Normally, I'd just want to have both, tho.

This I definitely agree with. My first three feats for an archer are Point Blank, Precise, Rapid, in that order.

And Augment Healing? Sure, it's good, but it costs a feat. Clerics do not have a lot of those. Healing spells are very good already, there really is no need for this feat, even tho it is quite powerful for sure.

This also may be a matter of campaign style. Most of the games I DM/play are very lethal. The healing boost offered by Augmented Healing is absolutely phenomenal. It frees up the cleric allowing him to cast fewer healing spells in combat or, if the you-know-what is really hitting the fan, cast the same number of healing spells for a vastly superior overall effect.

Yes, clerics have few feats. But this feat, IMO, absolutely should be one of them. Perhaps not at low-levels if the cleric is martially oriented, but definitely by 12.

 

[Darkness]

Per person. So in a standard 4 person party, that's 56 extra points of healing per casting.

Yep. It's quite neat.

Against a CR 13 encounter, that alone enables your party to withstand 2-3 hits more than otherwise.