Essentials has me hyped about D&D again

As awesome as Essentials can be, I would rethink "Essentials only". If someone wants to play a Goliath Warden or a Warforged Artificer or a Githzerai Monk, or whatever.. it'd be pretty annoying to be told NO.
I'd be pretty annoyed if I was starting an essentials-only game and someone showed up wanting to play a Goliath Warden or a Warforged Artificer or a Githzerai Monk. As for why I'd run an essentials-only game, I've had a lot of players point out essentials builds they'd like to try, but no-one yet who's actually brought one to a game, so here's their chance! (The fact that it also eliminates a lot of done-to-death race / class combos is just a bonus.)
 

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(The fact that it also eliminates a lot of done-to-death race / class combos is just a bonus.)
Yeah like Dwarf Fighter!

Elf Ranger!

Eladrin Wizard!

Tiefling Warlock!

Halfling Rogue!

Human Paladin!

And um...

Hold on a moment... Something isn't actually quite adding up here but I can't fully put my finger on it...
 

As awesome as Essentials can be, I would rethink "Essentials only". If someone wants to play a Goliath Warden or a Warforged Artificer or a Githzerai Monk, or whatever.. it'd be pretty annoying to be told NO. .

absolutely - I agree, except that I'm playing with ESL students who have never played before. "Everything" is new for them and because of their English abilities and being youth, I'm the only one who has the books and I'm the one creating their characters by consulting with them. Limiting options just provides more sanity. Therefore I have other reasons to limit as well. But for example, I built an Essentials "Barbarian" by using a Slayer model but taking away Power Strike and adding a more basic form of the Rage Daily. (I also roll vs. his Will on occasion to see if he's able to control his temper, which provides fun situations for him and the group).

But as a general practice, I would normally agree with you.
 

Yeah, I really like essentials, and it almost brought me back to 4th edition... but then WotC cancelled the magic book and suddenly essentials really wasn't complete... felt a little like I got burned there, but you live and learn.

yeah, about that.... I'm still sort of hoping/expecting that WotC will produce some sort of magic book. Dropped that ball for sure.
 

Wizards have practically admitted that the lack of rare and common items breaks the essentials assumptions about the magic item system. So they have just actively said to use the old treasure parcel system.

For the record, I was so looking forward to the magic item book because a bunch of great, rare storied items was perfect to me.
 

Nothing's really changed, there, for the Warpriest or Mage. For the Knight, Slayer and Rogue, there are virtually no powers to /be/ different - they do the same things their whole carreers.

Again, true only of the Martial classes.

Exactly, and True, and I have been using mostly martial characters for the players, but not all.

I agree that characters generally advance and use the same powers their entire lives - which maybe is my point. While 4e might generally offer 2(w) + condition damage across the board for many Lvl 3 Encounter powers, I felt Essentials' leveling powers stayed more clearly within the theme of that character. For example, if I'm a Knight, my 3rd Lvl just means I'm still defending and trying to get in the middle of everyone - only I do it with a little more skill; I haven't learned a newer, deadlier attack, I'm just a little better at what I was already doing. While this provides less choices of powers per leveling, I felt that it provided more immersion in how a particular character might improve as a knight - and thus to me was more player-focused and not power-focused. To me it played more like APG, which I liked and was a little surprised to experience.

And I'm not knocking 4e - picking up D&D and playing 4e after a 25 year absence was one of the best decisions I've made in the last decade.

No Tony, that's rather the entire point with regard to martial characters. To be honest the thing that confused me was this:

Combat in 4E is already very dangerous at low levels with the adjusted maths of MM3 and power design of heroic monsters being better. A level 8 elite owlbear can dismantle nearly any non-defender in one round. In fact I find my biggest problem with 4E is not enough surges anymore, because monster damage has eclipsed the amount of surges PCs have (especially squishier characters like strikers and controllers).

I really don't see the point of this and if I gave my PCs only a single surge after a rest, I'd TPK them trivially.

Two points: 1) we obviously run different games, which is pie, probably pecan. 2) I rarely have an encounter that ends with someone close to zero HP. My encounters are also deadly. But while you might use the full surges to start fresh, I don't, meaning that our next encounters might be different strength but both end up with our players fearing death and at around the same HP level. Both work. Since we have less encounters per day than suggested, I just found that encounter survival was the only key - no longer term planning. Limiting surges added more longer term planning a I felt a little dark realism - b/c we all know that D&D is about realism.

The reason I use my system is 1) healing surges feel a little too magical to me, and I like to provide a more lasting effect to damage. I want players leaving their village to feel strong and invincible, but players waking up for the third consecutive night in a dungeon to feel like they're exhausted and afraid and second guessing themselves. 2) b/c I want players to have a little more sense of debate - "should we rest, where can we rest safely?", "should we attack here or find another way around?". There were increased battle tactics of keeping weaker players a little more protected and flanked which provided changes b/t encounters.

I try to make my system gritty and dark. It might not be accurate, but that is the theme I'm trying to get players to feel.
 

2) I rarely have an encounter that ends with someone close to zero HP. My encounters are also deadly.
My brain can't piece together how the first sentence possibly makes any sense in relation to the second. What you describe just feels like an extremely delayed form of attrition, yet you can get an identical effect just using normal encounters. For example in one game one character has 1 surge remaining, another 0, another 3, another 2 and the final PC has 4. They started with 8/6/13/9/6 respectively (or around that). This is just as incredibly worrying, especially because an individual encounter can also stretch healing resources as well. So individual encounters are not only dangerous - but the entire day is dangerous because I stretch both in encounter healing resources AND their surges.

I try to make my system gritty and dark. It might not be accurate, but that is the theme I'm trying to get players to feel.
I can see what you're trying to achieve, I just think it can be done with how the system works already with no particular issue. Also I am unsure what EL of encounters you use, but I'm varying between party level -2 to party level +1 on average. This is because I'm whacking too many surges off PCs early and making continuing adventuring too difficult and deadly!

I can certainly see the intent - but I think the game as it currently is achieves it anyway.
 

Exactly, and True, and I have been using mostly martial characters for the players, but not all.

I agree that characters generally advance and use the same powers their entire lives - which maybe is my point. While 4e might generally offer 2(w) + condition damage across the board for many Lvl 3 Encounter powers, I felt Essentials' leveling powers stayed more clearly within the theme of that character. For example, if I'm a Knight, my 3rd Lvl just means I'm still defending and trying to get in the middle of everyone - only I do it with a little more skill; I haven't learned a newer, deadlier attack, I'm just a little better at what I was already doing. While this provides less choices of powers per leveling, I felt that it provided more immersion in how a particular character might improve as a knight - and thus to me was more player-focused and not power-focused. To me it played more like APG, which I liked and was a little surprised to experience.
'APG' is the most recent suplement for Pathfinder, yes? I can believe that. I have tried out both the Knight, and it does play a little retro, and the Slayer, and it feels like an AD&D fighter, straight-up. They both get very boring, very fast. 3.5/Pathfinder Fighters end up with more options and interest as they level. They get fewer feats, but 3.5 feats were meatier, more of them added real options in combat - in 4e, all your options come from powers, no new powers = no new options. All basic attacks and no powers makes Jack a dull Fighter.
 


My brain can't piece together how the first sentence possibly makes any sense in relation to the second. What you describe just feels like an extremely delayed form of attrition, yet you can get an identical effect just using normal encounters. For example in one game one character has 1 surge remaining, another 0, another 3, another 2 and the final PC has 4. They started with 8/6/13/9/6 respectively (or around that). This is just as incredibly worrying, especially because an individual encounter can also stretch healing resources as well. So individual encounters are not only dangerous - but the entire day is dangerous because I stretch both in encounter healing resources AND their surges.

I can see what you're trying to achieve, I just think it can be done with how the system works already with no particular issue. Also I am unsure what EL of encounters you use, but I'm varying between party level -2 to party level +1 on average. This is because I'm whacking too many surges off PCs early and making continuing adventuring too difficult and deadly!

I can certainly see the intent - but I think the game as it currently is achieves it anyway.

It sounds like it does for you. But really, is it that hard for your brain to piece this together? We're running different games. It isn't hard for me to piece together what you're doing.

For me, the outcome is the same but with less healing (yes, this means less battles and in the long run less damage). This is how I prefer it. With the way I run the game, b/c there is actually less damage total and players are generally closer to their exhausted levels of very few surges, I feel that each potential encounter is more threatening - heck, even each attack that does damage can be more threatening. This leads to more in- and out-of encounter strategies by my players. This is simply b/c I've scaled down the healing as well as the encounters. For all the reasons stated above, but also I've found that this makes it easier for me to get more story plot accomplished while speeding combat a little. (heck, I often skim the monsters HP but increase their damage output as well for the same reasons).

This is just how I like it. Believe me it works for me. Work on wrapping your brain around it. Most people use the standard encounter model which obviously works for them. I mentioned these houserules only b/c when I use these rules in addition to the (new for me) Essentials characters, I was able to achieve pretty near what I loved with both Pathfinder and 4e in one single game. And that made me hyped and eager to run my games again -- Running seven different campaigns each week for a total of 9 or 10 sessions really threatens to tap my energy/creative resources.
 

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