Essentials multiclassing playtest?

[Neverfate]

Eyebite aside, sure the Warlock could use some boosting. But this a class that has at least been supported for a few years now and is at least getting better. It has more feats and options. Varied encounter powers.

Hexblades had one thing going for them. A solid implement/weapon attack that you could do fun things with. I think it'd be a shame if they got that. I know they aren't superb strikers either, so why you would detract from them is just beyond me.

 

[Ajar]

And @Ajar , the pact blade is great - but Eldritch Strike won't help you much as it's not a rogue power and therefore can't sneak attack; you might as well just use the MBA that comes with the Pact Weapon. I'd recommend the Sorceror King Pact At Will I think.

Oh, I know Eldritch Strike doesn't work with sneak attack, but I've got Sly Flourish for that. I just want an MBA between now and when I can pick up the Pact Weapon. I can't retrain into it, because all of my feats are spoken for: Hybrid Talent (Cunning Sneak), Acolyte of the Veil (multiclass Assassin), Mark of Passage (+1 teleport distance), and Cursed Shadow (to get Shadow Walk).

I have sort of a Nightcrawler type build where I sneak around or bamf around and stab people. So Mark of Passage might seem optional, but it's the reason my Otherwind Stride is 7 squares, which got me from the ground to the back of a flying enemy drake a few encounters ago.

I'll check out the Sorcerer-King Pact at-will as a potential replacement for Eyebite, though.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I gotta say, as far as hexblades go it does seem like this new feat really steals their thunder. OTOH you could argue that in a game where PHB1 and Essentials are being used things are a bit easier on everyone as you can now just use the PHB1 warlock to do all your various concepts and the hexblade and binder warlocks are really just useful in Essentials only play (the issue of gloom and shadow pacts aside). Still, I gotta agree, it seems a bit overboard to have a feat that effectively lets you loot the one interesting mechanic of the hexblade (though note that a regular warlock can't get the hexblade's damage bonus, OTOH it has curse damage so that probably doesn't matter much).

Eyebite is a highly useful at-will. You have to remember to context of the build it is designed for. Feylocks are supposed to be tricky ranged strikery controllers. Eyebite is really (IMHO) intended as a way for them to say ping a lurker that jumps out at them or some monster that charges on up through the line so they can slip away, or to set up for a nasty daily on your next attack. I kind of agree though, it would be more interesting if the effect lasted UEOYNT. I guess they were worried about it being too tempting for other classes to scavenge? In any case, while 1d6+Cha single target is rather sub-par it does have a lot of keywords and can be pumped up rather well. That isn't exactly terrible damage either when you need it.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Eyebite is a highly useful at-will. You have to remember to context of the build it is designed for. Feylocks are supposed to be tricky ranged strikery controllers. Eyebite is really (IMHO) intended as a way for them to say ping a lurker that jumps out at them or some monster that charges on up through the line so they can slip away, or to set up for a nasty daily on your next attack. I kind of agree though, it would be more interesting if the effect lasted UEOYNT. I guess they were worried about it being too tempting for other classes to scavenge? In any case, while 1d6+Cha single target is rather sub-par it does have a lot of keywords and can be pumped up rather well. That isn't exactly terrible damage either when you need it.

The core problem with that defence of Eyebite is that At Wills are most needed at low levels. The levels where you have only one or two encounter powers and one daily. As a Warlock, your other At Will is the frankly sucky Eldritch Bolt - weak damage, no control and poor at low levels when you are likely to be facing lots of kobolds and goblins. Eldritch Bolt has the approximate accuracy and damage of a longbow RBA with absolutely no control.

In Paragon with four encounter attack powers and three dailies then yes, I agree that Eyebite is a useful power with its place in the toolbox. But across the bottom-middle of heroic, it sucks because it sets you up but you don't have anything else you can do after that set up. And the bottom-middle of heroic is precisely when you need your at wills the most.

Edit: And Warlocks getting CA these days is trivial. Hidden Sniper feat - the Warlock has CA for ranged attacks whenever (s)he has partial concealment. Combine with Shadow Walk and season to taste.

 

[Ryujin]

Sure, except that a Feylock's shtick is evasion and control, perhaps more than damage. Eyebite fits that model. At low levels having the guy who's trying to track me down and hit me have to do so, with a -5 on the attack, is pretty darned good. I used it more than Eldritch Blast.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The core problem with that defence of Eyebite is that At Wills are most needed at low levels. The levels where you have only one or two encounter powers and one daily. As a Warlock, your other At Will is the frankly sucky Eldritch Bolt - weak damage, no control and poor at low levels when you are likely to be facing lots of kobolds and goblins. Eldritch Bolt has the approximate accuracy and damage of a longbow RBA with absolutely no control.

In Paragon with four encounter attack powers and three dailies then yes, I agree that Eyebite is a useful power with its place in the toolbox. But across the bottom-middle of heroic, it sucks because it sets you up but you don't have anything else you can do after that set up. And the bottom-middle of heroic is precisely when you need your at wills the most.

Edit: And Warlocks getting CA these days is trivial. Hidden Sniper feat - the Warlock has CA for ranged attacks whenever (s)he has partial concealment. Combine with Shadow Walk and season to taste.

If there's a problem with Eldritch Blast, then that is what should be fixed. Heck, just being able to Eyebite and run up with your nice Hexblade and not need to worry about the guy whacking you before you get to hit him is not a bad tactic. hehe.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Sure, except that a Feylock's shtick is evasion and control, perhaps more than damage. Eyebite fits that model. At low levels having the guy who's trying to track me down and hit me have to do so, with a -5 on the attack, is pretty darned good. I used it more than Eldritch Blast.

The big problem here is why would anyone want to try to hit you? You're doing not much damage. You're not throwing out marks. You're not easy to hit. And out of the PHB you don't even have an Opportunity Attack worth speaking of. They are better off simply ignoring you wherever possible.

Forcing the enemy to make a good move (i.e. Focus Fire on someone rather than spread their attacks around in a direction that includes you) is not control. It's going out of your way to help the enemy.

If there's a problem with Eldritch Blast, then that is what should be fixed. Heck, just being able to Eyebite and run up with your nice Hexblade and not need to worry about the guy whacking you before you get to hit him is not a bad tactic. hehe.

Oh, Eldritch Blast absolutely needs to be fixed. Without a Warlord I can't think of a single time when a Hell'lock would want to throw Eldritch Blast - both are anti-reflex attacks and in almost all cases Hellish Rebuke is simply better.

And your defence? You can burn a feat to make a viable tactic. Yes, it's what I've thought of for ages with ES. But Warlocks and low levels are already feat-tight. And applying a feat tax is simply bad class design. Warlock At Wills should be somewhere near the level of the pactblade attacks, not a collection of powers (with the exception of Eldritch Strike and Hellish Rebuke (with honourable mentions for Dire Radiance and Eyes of the Vestige - all Con-based for some reason)) that just about any other class would throw back as bad choices.

 

[Ryujin]

The big problem here is why would anyone want to try to hit you? You're doing not much damage. You're not throwing out marks. You're not easy to hit. And out of the PHB you don't even have an Opportunity Attack worth speaking of. They are better off simply ignoring you wherever possible.

Forcing the enemy to make a good move (i.e. Focus Fire on someone rather than spread their attacks around in a direction that includes you) is not control. It's going out of your way to help the enemy.

Funny; that's what the DM thought too as I was robbing his creatures of actions, occasionally tugging on a puppet's strings for kicks, and quietly spreading 100+ of multi-keyword damage around the board. Of course that wasn't a pure Feylock, but that was the idea

Oh, and my party loved it when I used Mire the Mind.

 

[WalterKovacs]

And, as a cha user and a healer, they can eaisly 'also vampire' plus 'also blackguard' or some divine class to get 'also ignores daylight/radiant vulrn'.

More hilarity ensues if you have encounters from more than one power source to use the 'you can get a healing surge with your encounter' feats for each power source.

The bard could have some fun (albeit at a steep feat cost) grabbing stuff like martial vampire, primal vampire, the afforementioned divine vampire, which can all help feed the damage boosting from arcane vampire. 4 surges, an extra one on a hit with each encounter power, an extra surge when first bloodied, and the ability to turn your heal powers into surge drains is pretty whacky. [Speaking of which ... does an at-will power usable 1/encounter, for example via multiclass feats like the one for the invoker ... is that technically an encounter attack power? If so the bardpire [probably a half-elf for the 'all m/c powers use charisma' feat] could be quite the surge generator (he can also grab the domination daily from the vampire for one more surge). He may want to grab some of the other vampire powers in order to have something to spend his surges on (or maybe some paladin powers).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The bard could have some fun (albeit at a steep feat cost) grabbing stuff like martial vampire, primal vampire, the afforementioned divine vampire, which can all help feed the damage boosting from arcane vampire. 4 surges, an extra one on a hit with each encounter power, an extra surge when first bloodied, and the ability to turn your heal powers into surge drains is pretty whacky. [Speaking of which ... does an at-will power usable 1/encounter, for example via multiclass feats like the one for the invoker ... is that technically an encounter attack power? If so the bardpire [probably a half-elf for the 'all m/c powers use charisma' feat] could be quite the surge generator (he can also grab the domination daily from the vampire for one more surge). He may want to grab some of the other vampire powers in order to have something to spend his surges on (or maybe some paladin powers).

I think the standard interpretation is that an at-will usable 1/encounter (such as dilettante grants) is still an at-will power for rules purposes, you simply only get to use it less often. So I don't think powers like that would count for surge stuff. Still, the whole concept sounds pretty funny. I'm thinking they're going to have to put a 1/encounter limit on that whole feature.