Essentials Rogue is up!

[Prestidigitalis]

I like having the separate movement powers that set up CA. Yes, Daze will have a big effect, as it should on a movement-based character.

The "move 0" option isn't necessarily that hard to explain to a newbie -- "The rogue fakes, bobs and weaves without ever moving more than a step, but does it so well that the enemies are caught off-balance."

I am surprised by one thing about the Thief build -- it has Strength or Charisma for a secondary stat. Couldn't they have settled on one or the other? This isn't an entire class, just a build! I find that rather odd in a build that's supposed to be easier for new players.

 

[Storminator]

I think that thief looks fantastic.

Movement powers for the monk was my favorite bit of PHB3, so I really like seeing them here, and I think they're pretty well done. I've been tinkering with rogue an monk builds, but it looks like the thief is going to be very fun to play. Sigh. Can I quit my job so I can get enough gaming in?

PS

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I like having the separate movement powers that set up CA. Yes, Daze will have a big effect, as it should on a movement-based character.

The "move 0" option isn't necessarily that hard to explain to a newbie -- "The rogue fakes, bobs and weaves without ever moving more than a step, but does it so well that the enemies are caught off-balance."

I am surprised by one thing about the Thief build -- it has Strength or Charisma for a secondary stat. Couldn't they have settled on one or the other? This isn't an entire class, just a build! I find that rather odd in a build that's supposed to be easier for new players.

Well, we shall see. I can see some brain melt on the 0 move thing.

As for STR or CHA yes the Thief is a 'build' but it is also a stand-alone 'subclass' of rogue. In other words Essentials needs a fairly complete lineup of options internally without reference to existing material. So we're going to see something akin to the Brutal Scoundrel using STR to buff its attacks and something akin to the Artful Dodger using CHA. Same situation with the Slayer vs Knight and Warpriest builds (or maybe there's another version of cleric, that one is a bit unclear).

 

[Jack99]

I like having the separate movement powers that set up CA. Yes, Daze will have a big effect, as it should on a movement-based character.

The "move 0" option isn't necessarily that hard to explain to a newbie -- "The rogue fakes, bobs and weaves without ever moving more than a step, but does it so well that the enemies are caught off-balance."

I am surprised by one thing about the Thief build -- it has Strength or Charisma for a secondary stat. Couldn't they have settled on one or the other? This isn't an entire class, just a build! I find that rather odd in a build that's supposed to be easier for new players.

Maybe the result is the same and players can choose the stat that conforms the best with the idea of their character.

 

[Klaus]

Well, we shall see. I can see some brain melt on the 0 move thing.

As for STR or CHA yes the Thief is a 'build' but it is also a stand-alone 'subclass' of rogue. In other words Essentials needs a fairly complete lineup of options internally without reference to existing material. So we're going to see something akin to the Brutal Scoundrel using STR to buff its attacks and something akin to the Artful Dodger using CHA. Same situation with the Slayer vs Knight and Warpriest builds (or maybe there's another version of cleric, that one is a bit unclear).

Well, the Str/Dex aspect just screams "Fighter/Thief", which of course makes me want to roll up a Half-Orc Thief.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

As for STR or CHA yes the Thief is a 'build' but it is also a stand-alone 'subclass' of rogue. In other words Essentials needs a fairly complete lineup of options internally without reference to existing material. So we're going to see something akin to the Brutal Scoundrel using STR to buff its attacks and something akin to the Artful Dodger using CHA.

Right. So I'd expect the Thief to be Dex+Cha and the "Brawler" to be Dex+Str, or something like that. It just seems like if you are introducing something that is supposed to be simpler, limiting it to a single stat pair would be a big help.

 

[Hawkeye]

I always knew that the Essentials Rogue would be a damned dirty thief! It's probably a liar too!

Hawkeye

 

[Saeviomagy]

My only real comment is that if those are the final rules for feinting and tumbling trick, then feinting trick is a really, really bad option even for someone with a good cha and a bad str.

"So, THIS option gives me a shift 3 as a move action, and this one means that if I use tactics that make me give up 2d8 damage, I can get 3 points of damage instead..."

It just seems like a bad idea to have at all if the point is that newbies will play the class: it infers that getting SA is somehow not essential to being a rogue, when the reality is that it most certainly is.

 

[JohnSnow]

My only real comment is that if those are the final rules for feinting and tumbling trick, then feinting trick is a really, really bad option even for someone with a good cha and a bad str.

"So, THIS option gives me a shift 3 as a move action, and this one means that if I use tactics that make me give up 2d8 damage, I can get 3 points of damage instead..."

It just seems like a bad idea to have at all if the point is that newbies will play the class: it infers that getting SA is somehow not essential to being a rogue, when the reality is that it most certainly is.

Y'know, I just noticed that a careful read of Feinting Trick doesn't say that at all, even though we've all been thinking it does. Here's the text:

Effect: You move up to your speed. You gain a power bonus to the next damage roll you make this turn with a basic attack for which you do not have combat advantage. The power bonus equals your Charisma modifier.

So, Feinting Trick allows you to move your speed. IF you have combat advantage against your target when you attack, you get sneak attack damage as normal. But if for some reason you don't, like if the target moves in response before you can attack (like a shifty kobold), you still get a bonus to damage equal to your CHA modifier. That also makes this a useful backup power for those rare situations when you literally can't get combat advantage. Or if you take a second attack on your turn (like by using an action point), since you can only get sneak attack damage once per turn.

Frankly, there are probably more useful tricks, but I just wanted to clear up what this one says and what it doesn't say.

 

[Klaus]

My only real comment is that if those are the final rules for feinting and tumbling trick, then feinting trick is a really, really bad option even for someone with a good cha and a bad str.

"So, THIS option gives me a shift 3 as a move action, and this one means that if I use tactics that make me give up 2d8 damage, I can get 3 points of damage instead..."

It just seems like a bad idea to have at all if the point is that newbies will play the class: it infers that getting SA is somehow not essential to being a rogue, when the reality is that it most certainly is.

Feinting Trick has no range limitation. So the thief can stay 10 squares away from his target and still gain a bonus to damage.

It's basically Shot On The Run.