Essentials Rules Compendium preview copy in hand

[MrMyth]

What page is 'page 42' on now?

This was mentioned in one of the Essentials previews (for the DMs Kit), in which the designers were sad to mention that the skill table was no longer on page 42. The section it is in starts on page 101, and the actual chart on page 107. Source.

Instead, on page 42 of the book in the new Dungeon Master's Kit, you’ll find the definitions of the evil and chaotic evil alignments. Make of that what you will.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I'm not seeing any confusion. If it is an attack power that targets an enemy without making an attack roll, it still counts as making an attack.

Definition: an attack is an attack power, its attack roll, and all effects including damage

Exception: it doesn't have to have an attack roll

So why define it that way to begin with?

I think this also leaves open some question. If a character use an ATTACK POWER to create a zone that does 5 damage to any creature that enters the zone (no attack roll), then when a creature enters the zone and takes damgage, does that count as an attack?

If not, how is this any different than blasting something with magic missile?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You are targetting nothing.

It is like the rules for breaking invisibility in older dnd versions. If you directly do a targeted harmful effect on an enemy, you break invisibility. Its the intend of doing something harmful directly to an enemy. Healing word is no attack, and creating a wall of fire is no attack too, as it is not your fault if someone runs into it...

I just don´t get why everybody is so keen about breaking the rules now. If you wanted, you always could and will always be able to. Rules can never be written so that there is no wriggle room. If someone tries to find a hole, a hole will be found.

 

[MrMyth]

Definition: an attack is an attack power, its attack roll, and all effects including damage

Exception: it doesn't have to have an attack roll

So why define it that way to begin with?

Because 4E is an exception based system? I don't see any problems with them presenting the standard definition, and then clarifying that some exceptions exist.

I think this also leaves open some question. If a character use an ATTACK POWER to create a zone that does 5 damage to any creature that enters the zone (no attack roll), then when a creature enters the zone and takes damgage, does that count as an attack?

If the power targets anyone when it is used, it counts as an attack. If it simply creates a zone of dangerous energy, then it does not count as making an attack. Similarly, Rain of Steel does not count as making an attack.

If not, how is this any different than blasting something with magic missile?

Immediacy. I point at you and you instantly take damage - that is considered, by the system, to be making an attack. I create a zone of fire that will damage you when you walk through it - that does not count as making an attack.

I'm not seeing any confusion.
You are making an attack if you:
-Make an attack roll, or
-Use an attack power that has a target.

That seems pretty clear. I don't see any real potential for abuse. What clarification more do you need?

 

[Joshua Randall]

OK, new question. (Tired of talking about attacks but still convinced this is not a tight enough definition.)

How many examples are there in the RC? Are there a whole bunch and they use them everywhere to illustrate rules? Are there so few that they stick out? Or... ?

 

[thalmin]

OK, new question. (Tired of talking about attacks but still convinced this is not a tight enough definition.)

How many examples are there in the RC? Are there a whole bunch and they use them everywhere to illustrate rules? Are there so few that they stick out? Or... ?

They use examples frequently. Explain what a stat block is, show one. Trap stat block, show one. Skill check, example. Skill challenge, example. The book is loaded with them.

 

[Argyle King]

I'm doubting the usefulness to your standard optimized Kensei or pit fighter. The fighter has to jump through a few hoops to get such an ability more than once per encounter and the damage will be pitiful with no intelligence mod and no implement. And if the fighter invests in those I'm tossing more vote in the not broken category.

Actually, it's pretty easy to pick up the ability and use it more than once per encounter - half-elf. That doesn't even require multiclassing; only choosing a race and one feat. It's not going to be a ton of damage, but it's auto damage, marks the target, and can be used to trigger other nasty side effects which trigger from making a successful attack.

Also, it's possible to have your implement and weapon be the same item...

I'm sure there are better ways to play around with this idea. This is just scratching the surface from a limited knowledge of D&D.

 

[thalmin]

I know that bending the rules before even seeing them is a strong tradition for gamers (me too) could we please take such discussions to another thread, leaving this one open for general impressions and Q&A? Thanks.

edit: It just makes it easier to answer the questions folks have about the set.

 

[Seeten]

Hellish Rebuke

There has been a lot of debate over Hellish Rebuke and I'm hoping the RC clarified Extra Damage. A lot of people think the Hellish Rebuke damage is extra damage, as the word extra appears in the text.

Others have the opinion that the time loop that would cause, damage done now, more damage added to that damage later, thats part of the original damage roll, causing attacks that happened to not happen would seem to indicate it is not extra damage.

Here is hoping this is clarified in the Compendium.

 

[thalmin]

There has been a lot of debate over Hellish Rebuke and I'm hoping the RC clarified Extra Damage. A lot of people think the Hellish Rebuke damage is extra damage, as the word extra appears in the text.

Others have the opinion that the time loop that would cause, damage done now, more damage added to that damage later, thats part of the original damage roll, causing attacks that happened to not happen would seem to indicate it is not extra damage.

Here is hoping this is clarified in the Compendium.

I don't have the book available right now, I will try to check this after I get to work, when I get the chance.

(My work schedule is kinda strange. Some days I work 9-6, others 2-11. Yay variety!)