Essentials: which new players?

[Nymrohd]

The price tag is a huge thing. I just would not be able to afford PHB gifts for friends I want to lure to D&D but I sure can afford to buy a redbox as a gift even with no particular occasion.

 

[JereGenest]

As a parent of a 10 year old who is looking at expanding from a game run by his parents to running with friends the Essential Line has a great deal of appeal.

From what I can tell so far the line seems to be directed at the true intro, youth. Of course it will have appeal to a lot of parents who remember their own gaming days (or still game, no matter the system).

 

[Dedekind]

I remember reading about current players wanting an affordable gift to give to people they thought would be interested. Anecdotally, the designer interviews almost always mention that "somebody" gave them the red box as a kid and they fell in love with it. I certainly like the idea of an affordable item to give to any kid who might find it interesting.

As for lapsed players, Encounters is supposed to help with that, too, right?

 

[Henry]

The box screams "Give me to kids!"

The rules we've seen scream "We're sorry lapsed players!"

The box also seems to whisper, "I can't believe Bill's letting us get away with puttin' this in a Mentzer Box! This is SO COOL!"

 

[Tony Vargas]

4e was already pretty well set to apeal to new players. I've actually seen the phenomenon, if you can get a kid who, at most, has maybe played a few on-line games to try 4e, they get it right away. If you get a jaded old gamer to try it, they're like "Oh, this isn't really D&D."

Since 3.0, the PH as been a point of entry. You couldn't really play D&D with a 1e or 2e PH, you could play with just a 3.0 PH (but really not much past 1st level), with the 4e PH, you can play the game and you can build any character up to and including 30th level with no trouble. The DM needs a MM or a module, but that's about it. All the vital rules are in the PH. In 4e, you also had an introductory set. The Essentials introductory set is retro. Being retro makes it more likely to apeal to lapsed fans - who, afterall, are in their 40s, a prime time to waste money on something you used to love when you were a kid. Mid-life crisis nerds are squarely in the marketing crosshairs of the Red Box. Thier kids and any other 'new new' players might get hit if they're standing too close.

 

[fuzzlewump]

If the original red box appealed to kids ( some of YOU guys) why wouldn't this red box be able to the same thing _especially_ if it harkens to rules you enjoyed 30 years ago, some of you as children?

New generation can't handle it or what?

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

4e was already pretty well set to apeal to new players. I've actually seen the phenomenon, if you can get a kid who, at most, has maybe played a few on-line games to try 4e, they get it right away. If you get a jaded old gamer to try it, they're like "Oh, this isn't really D&D."

Aye. What confuses me about it is that they're selectively giving up for some types of classes the features that have made 4e so much more accessible to the new new players (including kids), IME.

If the original red box appealed to kids ( some of YOU guys) why wouldn't this red box be able to the same thing _especially_ if it harkens to rules you enjoyed 30 years ago, some of you as children?

New generation can't handle it or what?

Not at all. In fact, it's the opposite. The new generation seems to handle the rules that are out now just fine. Their parents don't. I honestly think the original 4e rules are more accessible to kids and that the Essentials appear to be re-mapping unintuitive and clunky D&Disms back onto the rules.

I don't think that's going to stop the kids from enjoying a very cool looking product that they can actually afford, but I do think it's a strange attempt to kill two birds with one stone when those two birds are of wildly different physiology and are rapidly flying in opposite directions.

They are moving in those opposite directions for a reason, and if you do manage to hit them both, they're just going to fall onto ground that neither of them is wholly comfortable with.

 

[TarionzCousin]

New generation can't handle it or what?

I heard they were marketing Essentials toward deaf, dumb, and blind kids.

 

[Zieche]

Ones that can't play pinball?

 

[MrMyth]

I heard they were marketing Essentials toward deaf, dumb, and blind kids.

Not quite sure if this statement was meant as dismissively as it sounded, or if I'm misreading it completely, but...

...look, I've got gamers in my group for whom the approach of Essentials would be fantastic for. These aren't kids, and they aren't deaf, dumb or blind, but they can easily get caught up in the pile of options and choices involved in both building and playing a character, not to mention subtle mechanical differences between things like immediates and opportunity attacks and the like.

I have to imagine that many kids starting out the game are in a similar place. And those are the things that Essentials seems to be targeting to make the game more accessible.

I honestly think the original 4e rules are more accessible to kids and that the Essentials appear to be re-mapping unintuitive and clunky D&Disms back onto the rules.

I don't think that's going to stop the kids from enjoying a very cool looking product that they can actually afford, but I do think it's a strange attempt to kill two birds with one stone when those two birds are of wildly different physiology and are rapidly flying in opposite directions.

I really don't get this claim that "class D&Disms" are inherently clunky and unintuitive. Almost all the ones we've seen thus far are much more about flavor than mechanics. The Mage build gets a choice of Schools to focus in, rather than the Wizard's usual focus on a specific implement.

Something that appeals to classic players, is balanced alongside the existing stuff, and shouldn't be remotely an issue for new players to get into.

I'm just not sure where this idea came from, that "classic flavor" and "intuitive mechanics" are somehow opposed. It isn't as though they are actually taking mechanics of earlier editions and copy-pasting them into the game! They are just taking elements of flavor and presentation and adapting those to the current system.

For completely new kids? The truth is, if they don't know D&D one way or another, they won't notice such elements one way or another. With nothing to compare it to, those flavor elements from the past will be read as just as natural as completely new stuff developed with 4E.