Estimating the Power of an opponent

[Altamont Ravenard]

How do you handle it, rule-wise, when, say, tow fighters face-off, and they try to take a guess at each other's power level. I mean, a 1st-level fighter and a 5-th level fighter, decked in full plate and wielding sword and shield will probably look an awful lot the same.

Is there a way for a character to try to estimate the power of the foe he's facing, be it a classed humanoid, a monster of some sort, etc.? Wis check? Knowledge (Monsters) check?

Thanks in advance,

AR

 

[clark411]

The rules, to my knowledge, don't handle detecting differences in power level based on class level. Knowledges usually let you know things about the race of a being, so any applicable knowledge check to see what an elven fighter you're facing is capable of would reveal that he, like all elves, is immune to sleep and resistant to enchantments.

Now, you might be able to argue that some insight can be gained by a Knowledge Local if dealing with a well known fighter ("Old Jim Sworder's known to have killed 8 men at once." ah- whirlwind or cleaving?) or that a sense motive check could be used to see the rough talent of an opponent.. but that's pushing more into house rulings.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

The way I use is really quick and dirty. As a DM, I roll my dice in full view of the players. When it stops rolling, I read it and ask, does AC xy hit you? If the player sees that I rolled a two and I'm asking if AC 20 hits, he's facing off against someone who's very skilled. On the other hand, if the fighter in full-plate rolls a 19 and I say "potential crit threat, does AC 25 hit you", he's probably only moderately skilled.

I actually don't consider that true meta-gaming either. The end number describes the force and skill delivered by the blow. The number on the dice indicates how lucky the foe was/vulnerable the PC was. It also allows a rough estimate of fighting skill without taking any time to ask and answer questions. The number of attacks a foe makes on a full attack action is a similar rough indicator. If a PC were to ask how much of that was due to raw strength, I would probably give an answer +/- 1 to the NPC's strength bonus. People can figure out the rest from there.

 

[Olive]

Well for monsters there's the new knowledge skill stuff. But for leveled NPCs there's a system using sense motive in Oriental Adventures. I hate it myself, but that's where you'll find it.

 

[Philomel III]

Well, in OA it states that you might consider using Sense Motive as a way of determining an opponent's HD and BAB, IIRC. Check it out, if you have the resources.

 

[Endur]

I tend to go with the standard approach:

1) What have you heard about this opponent;
2) What have you seen the opponent do;
3) What sort of equipment is the opponenet wearing: rags, full plate, full plate of adamantine decorated with rubies, etc.
4) detect alignment gives you a power rating for how evil, good, etc. they are.
5) detect magic gives you a power rating for their most powerful items

That's how you tell a 1st level goblin from an epic level goblin.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's tangential to the original question, but the Arcane Sight spell from Tome and Blood lets you determine the level of the highest spell (or SLA) a creature currently has available.

So if you look at someone and they show an 8th level spell, you can reasonably assume they have a caster level of at least 15.

But that doesn't help much in the plate mail standoff scenario.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

It's tangential to the original question, but the Arcane Sight spell from Tome and Blood lets you determine the level of the highest spell (or SLA) a creature currently has available.

So if you look at someone and they show an 8th level spell, you can reasonably assume they have a caster level of at least 15.

But that doesn't help much in the plate mail standoff scenario.

-Hyp.

I think there's also a spell somewhere ("powersight"?) that tells you how many HD the target has. Can't remember where it's from, though.

 

[Li Shenron]

For spellcasters, our players usually figure out very soon which approximate level they are, since most of the times the most powerful spells are also the first to be cast.

For fighters, rogue and the like, it could be more difficult to judge just by the damage you have taken, which anyway requires some sort of... sacrifice.

I don't know how important could be to exactly know the level or HD, except for some spell's effects, but I think that if a PC wants to estimate the CR of the opponent I would make it simple with a Sense Motive check. The point would rather be if the check should require to take an action, or perhaps not an action, but you maybe could require to see the opponent fight at least for some rounds before being able to guess.

 

[Ghostmoon]

At times, I will allow the fighters and other warrior-type classes to make "Fighter Checks", essentially 1d20 + level, to see if they can determine something related to their field, but not implicitly covered by the rules.

Examples I have used in the past included: determining that a weapon is masterwork, noticing that a creature has some form of damage resistance in battle, and noticing and understanding patterns of movement among the enemy units and troops.

I don't see why it could not be used to estimate relative enemy strength. I would use relative terms, such as easy, well-matched, tough, Retreat!.

For DCs, I usually just wing it. I look to the Bardic Knowledge DC check for some guidance in setting the DC and adjust for extraneous factors.

Hope this helps,
Ghostmoon