Ethereal Ninja attacking a sleeping PC.
- Thread starter Shin Okada
- Start date
frankthedm
First Post
No.
Alarm said:
1000's of XP and GP [in diamonds] is worth sweating a little bit.
If the cleric gets whacked, since the vamp will use it's 2 negative level slam, the party better have a UMD user and a scroll. Otherwise there will be plenty double jeapardy
A CdG is not an "attack" it is a full round action. There is no attack roll to be made and it is not even "a special attack action" it is a separate type of "full round action".
Jack Simth
First Post
Does that mean that if I Coup De Grace a Paralyzed foe, I maintain the Sor/Wiz-2 Invisibility spell? After all, it's not an attack, it's not a spell targeting a foe, and it's not an area-effect spell that includes a foe.
Starbuck_II
Explorer
No, what he means is it isn't a standard action attack, but a full round action attack.
Jack Simth
First Post
Context:
Irdeggman's post was in response to my pointing out that the Ethereal Strike ability gives you a round in which to use it - it has to be made by the end of your next turn, not the end of this one - so that the attack being a full-round action isn't a barrier. After I point this out, Irdeggman started calling a CdG "not an attack" as what appears to be a fall-back argument - so I pointed out a logical consequence of labeling it such, and note that it's somewhat silly.
The full-round issue has already been dismissed as not being all that important.
After all, if using a weapon to create a life-threatening injury on another isn't an "attack", then what is?
Shin Okada
Explorer
Thank you guys for comments.
Well, the dungeon is composed of a big tower and underground area. And the only physical entrance is on the top of the tower. So, when delving the upper tower part, PCs were using fly and similar spells every day and going back to a camp site they made few miles away from the tower.
But now they are in the underground dungeon area which is 100 foot down even from the lowest level of the tower. So, when their resources of the day are scarce, it is rather hard for them to climb up the entire tower again and then use flying spells and travel back to the camp site. It takes much time and resources (spell slots).
So they have decided to use the friendly creature race's lair as their haven.
They are attacked by that ninja once. So the party sorcerer is always casting See Invisibility on her when see is awake. So, if the Ninja attack happens when the sorceress is standing as a watch, she can see the ninja. I will roll randomly when the attack happens. So depending on their watch rotation, the ninja may fail in surprising the party.
And the party has 2 clerics. If one is awake when a comrade is suddenly slain, they can cast Gentle Repose or Revivify immediately. Even if not, I will let all the PCs make listen check with -10 penalty for sleeping (DC 0?). So, if one can awake and cast such spells in their first turn, the victim will not lose one's XP.
All the PCs has some means of see ethereal thing at least temporary, say, See Invisibility, Invisibility Purge or Potion of See Invisibility. So once they noticed that they are under attack, they will react soon.
Still, maybe I should warn the possibility of such attacks somehow. No one in my play group played Ninja as a PC as it has very limited resources per day. So no one (including myself) ever researched fully what a high level Ninja can and cannot.
Well, the dungeon is composed of a big tower and underground area. And the only physical entrance is on the top of the tower. So, when delving the upper tower part, PCs were using fly and similar spells every day and going back to a camp site they made few miles away from the tower.
But now they are in the underground dungeon area which is 100 foot down even from the lowest level of the tower. So, when their resources of the day are scarce, it is rather hard for them to climb up the entire tower again and then use flying spells and travel back to the camp site. It takes much time and resources (spell slots).
So they have decided to use the friendly creature race's lair as their haven.
They are attacked by that ninja once. So the party sorcerer is always casting See Invisibility on her when see is awake. So, if the Ninja attack happens when the sorceress is standing as a watch, she can see the ninja. I will roll randomly when the attack happens. So depending on their watch rotation, the ninja may fail in surprising the party.
And the party has 2 clerics. If one is awake when a comrade is suddenly slain, they can cast Gentle Repose or Revivify immediately. Even if not, I will let all the PCs make listen check with -10 penalty for sleeping (DC 0?). So, if one can awake and cast such spells in their first turn, the victim will not lose one's XP.
All the PCs has some means of see ethereal thing at least temporary, say, See Invisibility, Invisibility Purge or Potion of See Invisibility. So once they noticed that they are under attack, they will react soon.
Still, maybe I should warn the possibility of such attacks somehow. No one in my play group played Ninja as a PC as it has very limited resources per day. So no one (including myself) ever researched fully what a high level Ninja can and cannot.
Arkhandus
First Post
Obviously, Shin's players just aren't really used to high-level play yet, and either didn't survive to that level through play, or just had it really easy up to that point. Past 5th-level or so they should be expecting invisible or incorporeal attacks of some kind to come at some point, and it can easily happen at a lower level than that.
The party sorcerer is wise to use See Invisibility on watch, but at upper levels (which they must be, if they're expected to have any chance of avoiding a TPK against a high-level enemy with the added power of a vampire), they would've been wiser to use Mordenkainen's (Mage's, in the SRD) Faithful Hound. Still, See Invisibility is a decent enough safeguard, though it would be best if the party had 2 people on watch at any given time, and not standing/sitting right next to each other (so if one gets attacked, the other will have a chance to raise the alarm).
And shame on them if they aren't using Rope Trick or Mordenkainen's (Mage's in the SRD) Magnificent Mansion. Though I could understand if the whole dungeon prevents all extradimensional stuff, not just planar travel/teleportation (somehow...).
However, if the whole place prevents planar travel, how can the vampire go Ethereal? The Ethereal Plane shouldn't be accessable, unless it's an exception to the rule for the place's magical wards.
High-level parties who don't camp in extradimensional spaces ought to be experienced enough to expect extraplanar, incorporeal, or invisible attacks at any time. If they haven't been attacked by shadows, phase spiders, ethereal marauders, wraiths, phantom fungi, invisible stalkers, or spellcasting enemies using scry-buff-greater invisibility-teleport before that point, then they're just coddled, and need to be reminded not to underestimate the sneakiness of D&D monsters, casters, and rogues.
Edit: My edit got lost because of stupid VBulletin, but..... What I was adding was basically that if you want to avoid a TPK, just make the vampire ninja attack on the sorcerer's watch, to reward that good behavior by the sorcerer and give the party a chance. Nothing says you have to roll randomly to determine when enemies attack, especially when they're not random encounters.
I was also going to say that teleportation etc. is just instant travel through the Astral Plane, so unless the area's wards only block Astral access, then Ethereal access should also be unavailable and the vampire shouldn't be able to enter the Material Plane at all within that area while Ethereal (so Ghost Strike shouldn't work there if planar/dimensional travel is blocked by local wards).
Otherwise, if only the Astral Plane or only Teleportation is blocked, then the PCs should just be camping on the Plane of Shadow through a Shadow Walk spell, since it lasts long enough. Assuming they're of sufficient level to learn/cast it, anyway.
The party sorcerer is wise to use See Invisibility on watch, but at upper levels (which they must be, if they're expected to have any chance of avoiding a TPK against a high-level enemy with the added power of a vampire), they would've been wiser to use Mordenkainen's (Mage's, in the SRD) Faithful Hound. Still, See Invisibility is a decent enough safeguard, though it would be best if the party had 2 people on watch at any given time, and not standing/sitting right next to each other (so if one gets attacked, the other will have a chance to raise the alarm).
And shame on them if they aren't using Rope Trick or Mordenkainen's (Mage's in the SRD) Magnificent Mansion. Though I could understand if the whole dungeon prevents all extradimensional stuff, not just planar travel/teleportation (somehow...).
However, if the whole place prevents planar travel, how can the vampire go Ethereal? The Ethereal Plane shouldn't be accessable, unless it's an exception to the rule for the place's magical wards.
High-level parties who don't camp in extradimensional spaces ought to be experienced enough to expect extraplanar, incorporeal, or invisible attacks at any time. If they haven't been attacked by shadows, phase spiders, ethereal marauders, wraiths, phantom fungi, invisible stalkers, or spellcasting enemies using scry-buff-greater invisibility-teleport before that point, then they're just coddled, and need to be reminded not to underestimate the sneakiness of D&D monsters, casters, and rogues.
Edit: My edit got lost because of stupid VBulletin, but..... What I was adding was basically that if you want to avoid a TPK, just make the vampire ninja attack on the sorcerer's watch, to reward that good behavior by the sorcerer and give the party a chance. Nothing says you have to roll randomly to determine when enemies attack, especially when they're not random encounters.
I was also going to say that teleportation etc. is just instant travel through the Astral Plane, so unless the area's wards only block Astral access, then Ethereal access should also be unavailable and the vampire shouldn't be able to enter the Material Plane at all within that area while Ethereal (so Ghost Strike shouldn't work there if planar/dimensional travel is blocked by local wards).
Otherwise, if only the Astral Plane or only Teleportation is blocked, then the PCs should just be camping on the Plane of Shadow through a Shadow Walk spell, since it lasts long enough. Assuming they're of sufficient level to learn/cast it, anyway.
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Shin Okada
Explorer
Well, the party has a warforged dragon disciple who has blindsense and never sleeps. So usually, invisible things in the same plane are not that much of problem to them. But ethereal things are.
Sleeping in extradimensional Space have several problems such as suffocation and bringing extradimensional space into another extradimensional space. And the party has just reached 14th-level and the Sorcerer chose Limited Wish as her first 7th-level spell (a wise choice indeed, as it helped them slaying a Drakestone Golem in the previous session, by emulating Transmute Rock to Mud spell). Thus, no Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion yet.
Only the central part of the dungeon, where the BBEG and his favored lieutenant and the guards reside, are protected from planer travel. Vampires are either using very small hole with their gaseous form ability or using a kind of artifact teleporting feature built in that dungeon itself.
Sleeping in extradimensional Space have several problems such as suffocation and bringing extradimensional space into another extradimensional space. And the party has just reached 14th-level and the Sorcerer chose Limited Wish as her first 7th-level spell (a wise choice indeed, as it helped them slaying a Drakestone Golem in the previous session, by emulating Transmute Rock to Mud spell). Thus, no Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion yet.
Only the central part of the dungeon, where the BBEG and his favored lieutenant and the guards reside, are protected from planer travel. Vampires are either using very small hole with their gaseous form ability or using a kind of artifact teleporting feature built in that dungeon itself.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Is there any particular reason the party can't just sleep inside a Rope Trick spell?
EDIT: Sorry. Left the page unrefreshed for an hour and then posted. Seems this was already asked and answered in that time.
EDIT: Sorry. Left the page unrefreshed for an hour and then posted. Seems this was already asked and answered in that time.
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