Ethereal / Readied actions

[Ruined]

Okay, I haven’t really done the ethereal thing with the 3.x rules, so I want to make sure I don’t screw my players over (more than the current situation does anyway). And so I look to you knowledgeable types.

I have some dire lions that have ethereal jaunt as a supernatural ability, which lets them ‘phase in’ to the material as part of a move-eqiuv. action and ‘phase out’ as a free action. So the sensible attack action would be to move into the material plane, attack (pounce in this case), and then phase out as a free action, correct?

The characters, once they realize what is happening, will likely ready their actions to attack when they materialize. They have no ghost touch, no easy means of seeing ethereal.

a) Is there anything I’m misunderstanding, overlooking about the ethereal jaunt ability?

b) Can characters use full attacks on readied actions?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

First of all, normally, when you cast ethereal jaunt, you become ethereal, and you can dismiss it to come back to the material plane.

The way you describe your dire lions' ability isn't how the spell works, IMO.

The dire lions should use a standard action to use their ability. Now they are ethereal, and can remain so for 1 round per caster level. If they wish to dismiss their ethereal condition, they need a standard action. IMO, the lions should instead wait until their spell runs out (just before it's their turn to act), appear, attack, and on their NEXT turn, they may use their ability again to become ethereal for a certain number of rounds.

What you propose is very nasty, and I'm not even sure the characters could do anything about it, but that's because I still have problems understanding how a surprise round is supposed to work.

What I mean is if the characters have NO way of knowing where the lions are when they are ethereal, then, shouldn't the lions get to surprise the characters whenever they pop back into the material plane?

As for your second question, a readied action is a standard action, so, no full attacks on a readied action.

AR

 

[Anthraxus]

I just ran an encounter in a Living Campaign that had creatures that shifted to the Ethereal. Huh... I guess I'm qualified to answer then.

1) Do you mean they can shift from the Ethereal to the Prime as a move action? They wouldn't be able to shift then, as Charge is a special Full Round action. No extra move actions to spare.

2) You can ready a Standard, Move, or Free action. Not a full round attack.

This ability would bump up the CR of a Dire Lion, which is OK, if you know your people can handle it.

-A

 

[Ruined]

I'm using the Ethereal template from the Book of Templates that gives this writeup of Ethereal Jaunt:

Ethereal Jaunt (su): An ethereal creature can shift from the Ethereal to the Material Plane as part of any move-equivalent action and shift back again as a free action. The creature may stay on either plane as long as it wishes.

I'm looking to represent spirit-like creatures that can be difficult to defend against, but then again, I'm not looking for something impossible to kill. Suggestions are always welcome.

 

[AuraSeer]

I think you've got the ethereal jaunt ability backward. Look at the power in the Phase Spider description; they can go from Ethereal to Material as a free action, but phasing back out requires a move action. Though the change seems minor, it can be very important, because it makes it less easy to escape to the ethereal when severely injured.

Either way, if a lion takes a move action to phase (in either direction), it cannot Pounce in the same turn. Pounce only works on a charge, and a charge is a special full-round action.

Also be aware that going ethereal doesn't physically move the creature at all. You need to keep track of what space the lions are in, even when they're not visible on the map. Moving around to find a new space to phase into takes at least one move action, even on the ethereal plane. So if the lion wants to always be phased out at the end of its turn, it will probably not be able to attack every round.

Here's an example of what I mean by that:
Lion turn 1: Phase in adjacent to victim. Take one attack. Phase out.
Victim turn 1: Move 30'. Ready an attack.
Lion turn 2: Moves 30' to be within reach of the victim. However, don't phase in yet, because it doesn't have enough time to also attack and phase out. So wait a round.
Victim turn 2: Ready again. ("Here kitty kitty...")
Lion turn 3: Phase in. Suffer the victim's readied attack. Take one attack. Phase out.
Etc.

Even if the victim doesn't move, remember that the lion can only take one attack-- NOT a charge or full attack, because those are full-round actions.

To answer your question B, you can only Ready a standard action, which again does not include a full attack or a charge. You can ready one attack, or a spell, or the activation of a magic item (like a wand), or anything else as long as it takes a standard action or less.

 

[Ruined]

Thanks AuraSeer (and everyone else for responses). The example helps a tremendous amount.

The template I'm using actually has it written up the way I described it, probably reversed by the writers to show that the creatures themselves are always ethereal. Thinking about it now, I'll probably go with the phase spider variant just for ease of use.

 

[Andre]

I'm using the Ethereal template from the Book of Templates that gives this writeup of Ethereal Jaunt:

Ethereal Jaunt (su): An ethereal creature can shift from the Ethereal to the Material Plane as part of any move-equivalent action and shift back again as a free action. The creature may stay on either plane as long as it wishes.

Interesting. I did some checking and here's what I've found:

Book of Templates
Ethereal Jaunt (Su): An ethereal being can shift from the Ethereal to the Material Plane as a free action, and shift back again as a move-equivalent action (or as part of a move-equivalent action). The ability is otherwise identical to an ethereal jaunt spell cast by a sorcerer of the ethereal being’s level.

Book of Templates Deluxe Edition
Ethereal Jaunt (Su): An ethereal creature can shift from the Ethereal to the Material Plane as part of any move-equivalent action and shift back again as a free action. The creature may stay on either plane as long as it wishes.

3.5 SRD Phase Spider
Ethereal Jaunt (Su): A phase spider can shift from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane as a free action, and shift back again as a move action (or during a move action). The ability is otherwise identical with ethereal jaunt (caster level 15th).

From the looks of things, the original BoT used the phase spider ability, but this was reversed in BoTDE. I don't know if this was a deliberate design decision or just a case of "gremlins", but you should use whichever version you're most comfortable with.

 

[Ruined]

Yep, that's what I had found Andre. Wouldn't have realized the difference without asking here. The game was last night, and I used the phase spider ruling. It was brutal, but no fatalities. I did get the group fighter down from 103 hp to 2 hp. The average party level is 11th, but the group was split up into far directions, and there was one for each PC. Fun, challenging stuff.

Once again, thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Aaron2]

What you propose is very nasty, and I'm not even sure the characters could do anything about it, but that's because I still have problems understanding how a surprise round is supposed to work.

What I mean is if the characters have NO way of knowing where the lions are when they are ethereal, then, shouldn't the lions get to surprise the characters whenever they pop back into the material plane?

I wouldn't cause a new suprise round unless the lions were ethereal for a long period of time (10+ minutes). You don't get a new suprise round when your invisible.

If the players are smart, they'll run. Ethereal creatues can only see 60 feet away. If everyone double moves, the lions will be hard pressed to find them (depending on what the terrain is like).


Aaron

 

[Nail]

..and if it's underground, with lots of passages, it will be nearly impossible for the Ethereal Lions to find the fleeing PCs. After all, being on the Ethereal Plane doesn't allow you to see through walls.....

What was the CR of the Ethereal Lions?