D&D 5E Etherealness, Deep Ethereal, and Plane Shift.

[SkidAce]

Looking for an interesting discussion, fluff and/or rules references are fine...but no right/wrong derails please. (see those other two threads... )

Set up: A big part of my campaigns were "lower" level characters using the ethereal to get to the deep ethereal, and thus travel to other worlds. You could use the shadow realm similarly.

Then at higher levels, they would astral travel, and eventually with known locations, start teleporting/gating semi-directly.

"We" like the travel / encounter aspect of the planes.

So, long story short (tooooo late!) I replaced the Deep Ethereal, which no longer exists in 5e, with Limbo. No problem so far.

Here's the "fun" part;

Etherealness is a 7th level spell, affects 1 person without up casting. I add the "step away from reality and enter Limbo" part back in. Peachy right? One Person.

Plane Shift is a 7th level spell, affects up to 8 people.

Nobody in their right mind will choose Etherealness (for planar travel). My Faerie Realms and Shadow are also locations in the ethereal, but once again plane shift trumps that.

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I was thinking of reducing the spell level of Etherealness to 5th level, and having it affect up to 8 people. This would put it on the same level as Teleportation Circle.

So for exploration its either the circle for known locations you learned, or etherealness for exploring the cosmos.


Pros/Cons, brilliant ideas I didn't think of, etc?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Etherealness will allow parties to by pass all mundane obstacles. I would be more inclined to create an alternate to allow plane shift at lower levels or a divination spell to locate planar portals at great distance. At least the general area of a portal and perhaps other means to find the portal once the party is close, depending on how much of an adventure you want to make of it.

 

[Shardstone]

You didn't ask, but sharing these because I made some 5E rules for going through the ethereal plane. Maybe one of these will inspire or help you?

INTANGIBLE WEAPONS
Weapons are intangible inside of the Ethereal Plane. However, their purpose is not. Weapons now only do damage equal to any magical bonuses on them as well as your ability score.

ETHEREAL HIT POINTS AND ARMOR
Your hit points and armor are warped in the Ethereal Plane. Your maximum hit points now equals your Constitution score. Likewise, your AC is 10 + your Dex modifier + your Wisdom modifier.

SLOWED TIME
Time is slowed in the Ethereal Plane. Spells have a duration equal to x10 their normal duration, and effects on a timescale take x10 as long to apply.

ETHEREAL RESTS
Resting in the Ethereal Plane is only possible at a Waystation or if a spell such as Tiny Hut is cast.

GHOSTLY MOVEMENT
Inside of the Ethereal Plane, you have a fly speed equal to your walking speed. Additionally, you do not take fall damage, as the ground itself is ethereal too!

PHANTASM WARFARE
Illusion spells create real, magical objects in the Ethereal Plane. They last until dispelled by some method, even if the illusion spell ends.

 

[Demetrios1453]

So, long story short (tooooo late!) I replaced the Deep Ethereal, which no longer exists in 5e, with Limbo.

The Deep Ethereal section of the DMG on page 48-49 shows that the Deep Ethereal very much exists in 5e...

 

[SkidAce]

Hmmmm missed that.

Still Etherealness being same level as Plane Shift is problematic.

Edit to Add: Yeah, whole section there. Guess when I saw Etherealness had no description of Deep when we started 5e, I never looked back. Still might keep Deep=Limbo though, its become kinda... intriguing in its ramifications.*

Limbo manifest zone on the world, lets you create new lands, extend the world etc.

 

[SkidAce]

Just for fun, current cosmos layout....

 

[SkidAce]

I noticed it may not be apparent...the galaxy in the center of the pic is the material worlds. One cosmos, you can physically travel from star to star, but each "system" is considered its own world/plane for rule purposes.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Looks like your cosmology is different (mine is basically 2e (including quasi and para-elemental planes) but with the later additions like Shadowfell and Feywild), but your basic goal of starting campaign planar journey with travel through the Deep Ethereal, then through the Astral, then finally directly plane shifting is the same.

Here's the house rules I made to make it work.

First, for some really odd reason the description of the Ethereal Plane in the DMG doesn't give any way to shift between the Border Ethereal and Deep Ethereal. They are completely unconnected as far as the rules go. I simply add back in the 1e/2e rule that you spend an action to go from one to the other or back. I rule that if you got into the Border Ethereal by means of the etherealness spell and then will yourself into the Deep Ethereal, when the spell end you remain in the Deep Ethereal if you are there. In addition, I allow you to cast etherealness within the Border Ethereal to shift into the plane it borders (and the duration is instant, so it doesn't pull you back). That would fix the issue as far as ethereal travel goes, if the spell wasn't so high level that you can't even get a spell slot high enough to use it for party transport.

So with those house rules in mind, here are two spells I've created:

I think this should do a pretty good job of setting up the sort of travel options I'm looking for.

 

[Asisreo]

Hmmmm missed that.

Still Etherealness being same level as Plane Shift is problematic.

Edit to Add: Yeah, whole section there. Guess when I saw Etherealness had no description of Deep when we started 5e, I never looked back. Still might keep Deep=Limbo though, its become kinda... intriguing in its ramifications.*

Limbo manifest zone on the world, lets you create new lands, extend the world etc.

Not just that, the spell Etherealness never mentions the Deep Ethereal precisely because you cannot enter the Deep Ethereal using Etherealness. To enter the Deep Ethereal, you need a portal, Gate, or Plane Shift. One is DM fiat directly, another is DM fiat via material components, and the last should be reserved for only 17th level casters.

You can run your game however you want, but by RAW, you cannot enter the Deep Ethereal using Etherealness.

 

[andargor]

Nobody in their right mind will choose Etherealness (for planar travel). My Faerie Realms and Shadow are also locations in the ethereal, but once again plane shift trumps that.

You underestimate the power you have as a DM to control Plane Shift: tuning forks are required for each destination. I haven't found 5e references on how to obtain or make tuning forks, which means that it is entirely up to you. So if it's a PITA to get (very rare, only certain destinations, or even unique), then in your cosmology Etherealness becomes much more interesting for planar travel.