D&D 5E Etherealness, Deep Ethereal, and Plane Shift.

[SkidAce]

Here's the house rules I made to make it work.

First, for some really odd reason the description of the Ethereal Plane in the DMG doesn't give any way to shift between the Border Ethereal and Deep Ethereal. They are completely unconnected as far as the rules go. I simply add back in the 1e/2e rule that you spend an action to go from one to the other or back. I rule that if you got into the Border Ethereal by means of the etherealness spell and then will yourself into the Deep Ethereal, when the spell end you remain in the Deep Ethereal if you are there. In addition, I allow you to cast etherealness within the Border Ethereal to shift into the plane it borders (and the duration is instant, so it doesn't pull you back). That would fix the issue as far as ethereal travel goes, if the spell wasn't so high level that you can't even get a spell slot high enough to use it for party transport.

So with those house rules in mind, here are two spells I've created:
....

I dont quite get the point of the paragraph I outlined below.

 

[SkidAce]

So if you are standing on the Border...it makes a portal on the adjoining plane AND in the Deep and moves you to the Deep?

 

[SkidAce]

Hmmm, considering dumping/folding the Astral into the Ethereal.

Astral Projection could let you travel the stars via projecting....and at first, when standing next to your body could be like etherealness.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I dont quite get the point of the paragraph I outlined below.

So if you are standing on the Border...it makes a portal on the adjoining plane AND in the Deep and moves you to the Deep?

It might actually be more straightforward if I changed it so that you actually can't cast it from the Border Ethereal, and instead have to cast it from the Deep Ethereal when standing in front of the wall of color. I think the reason I didn't do that initially was dimensionally to give the caster a bit more grounding in their intended destination, and for convenience, since you are probably already going to be popping into the Border Ethereal to find out where you are before you decide to cast the spell, which is the same reason why you got shifted to the Deep when it appeared, since you'd have to go there to use it. The volatile nature of the conduit is the in-world justification.

Here's a better version:

The most important thing is that it doesn't reliably open in the exact same place on the bordering plane (which would make it more of an ether rend than an ether conduit), because that makes it more useful than the highly limited 7th-level etherealness in some use cases that etherealness is designed to focus on (such as scouting) but ether conduit isn't.

 

[SkidAce]

It might actually be more straightforward if I changed it so that you actually can't cast it from the Border Ethereal, and instead have to cast it from the Deep Ethereal when standing in front of the wall of color. I think the reason I didn't do that initially was dimensionally to give the caster a bit more grounding in their intended destination, and for convenience, since you are probably already going to be popping into the Border Ethereal to find out where you are before you decide to cast the spell, which is the same reason why you got shifted to the Deep when it appeared, since you'd have to go there to use it. The volatile nature of the conduit is the in-world justification.

Here's a better version:

View attachment 126806

The most important thing is that it doesn't reliably open in the exact same place on the bordering plane (which would make it more of an ether rend than an ether conduit), because that makes it more useful than the highly limited 7th-level etherealness in some use cases that etherealness is designed to focus on (such as scouting) but ether conduit isn't.

Cool, thanks. I understand better.

Here is a present for you. (just in case you need it)

 

[SkidAce]

Hmmm this is tricky @Sword of Spirit , we don't want to give away the abilities of the 8th level Etherealness.

But I could cast Ether Conduit, get on the other side of the Wall of Color, then just step back into the curtain. (As far as I know, there is no spell requirement for entering a Color Curtain, or stepping out of the Border into the world.)

I will find myself in the Border Ethereal, with no duration to worry about. Basically Etherealness unless I am missing something.

Could add the provision (since spell duration is 1 minute) that as soon as you enter any Border Ethereal, you have "X" time before you are shoved back onto the adjoining world/realm.

 

[SkidAce]

So your house rules, wording and spell examples were very helpful for me to delve into the concepts.

I tried to distill it down a bit, let me know what you think and if you see any flaws.

 

[SkidAce]

Ack! I forgot to add the travel times for Deep Ethereal, well, its in the DMG, so good enough for tonight.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Hmmm this is tricky @Sword of Spirit , we don't want to give away the abilities of the 8th level Etherealness.

I had forgotten it was 8th rather than 7th level. Such...a...bad...spell. In any event, you're right, I don't want to obsolete it.

But I could cast Ether Conduit, get on the other side of the Wall of Color, then just step back into the curtain. (As far as I know, there is no spell requirement for entering a Color Curtain

Absolutely!

or stepping out of the Border into the world.)

This, alas, one can't do. When inside the Border Ethereal you need to have some sort of special ability to just step across into the bordering plane, which this spell doesn't grant you. (Actually, nothing but seemingly some monster abilities or gate does let you do that.) It spell has a 10 minute duration, so you can pop back to the Deep Ethereal and go back and forth through that conduit to your heart's desire within that 10 minutes. But that doesn't grant as much power as it seems at first glance.

There is a balance and a constraint. The balance is that it can't actually replicate the intended use cases of etherealness, and the constraint is attached to why it can't do that.

Etherealness is basically undetectability plus phasing through walls and objects. It's best uses are for infiltration, escaping combat, or scouting. Its limitations make it non-ideal for anything else.

The important fact that prevents these uses for ether conduit is that you don't appear precisely where you want to. Each location on the Wall of Color corresponds to a location in the Border Ethereal, which overlaps precisely with a location on the bordering plane, and only 70% of the time does the location of the other end correspond with your casting location. I'm implying something like the way the PHB describes the plane shift spell without a teleportation circle as a target: "If you are trying to reach the City of Brass, for example, you might arrive in its Street of Steel, before its Gate of Ashes, or looking at the city from across the Sea of Fire, at the DM's discretion." While my intent with "corresponding vicinity" is that you don't go too far afield, you are almost certainly going to be dozens to hundreds of feet away in a random location--and 30% of the time you are going to be 2 to 200 miles away. The spell also has a 10 minute casting time.

The 10 minute casting time means you can't use it for escaping combat. The unreliable destination means you can't use it for infiltration, because even if you end up close to your current location and travel to where you want to return to your original plane from, when you cast it again you're not going to get exactly where you want to be. Forget about using it to get into the vault, etc. You can use it for scouting, but all of that travel is going to be a big hassle and gamble. You can easily roll poorly casting the spell to pop back and forth a few times in a row and end up hundreds of miles from where you wanted to be. Skirting the Curtain can help you get back to where you started half of the time, but each time you cast the spell you're still potentially 200 miles off.

Given those limitations, I lean against having a duration of stay. The point of this one is to get you into the Ethereal Plane, and then let you go wherever you want from there, but not be useful for the things etherealness is designed for. It's like a more limited, lower level plane shift.

 

[SkidAce]

I had forgotten it was 8th rather than 7th level. Such...a...bad...spell. In any event, you're right, I don't want to obsolete it.

I mistyped...its 7th.

Your premise that folks in the Border need an ability to step onto the Material is very interesting. I had never looked at it that way before.

Let me do some research...and get back at yah.