Pathfinder 1E Evil Character Questions.

IrishIronGut94

First Post
Hello forums! Names Scott and I am playing through my first campaign in fact and I am looking for a few tips in regarding to my character. So to give you all the short version, My char is a Pally, and i created him around the stereotypical characteristics and and mentalities[FONT=arial, sans-serif][/FONT]with the run of the mill, Holy Warrior to smite the foul and evil. Now without going to into detail about his background i will say that the Paladin was lied to and tricked into worshiping the wrong god. So when he found this out, he was over whelmed by the massive amount of guilt and horror that he had killed all these people for a false God. So he began to question himself, his life, and morality. Well during this time, a Demon Lord takes notice of this lone human who is suffering (he takes notice due to my Paladin putting out a deep desire to find a real god to serve and guide him, and The Demon Lord sees this) and decides to take him on as a new servant. So Paladin accepts the Demon Lords offer of servitude and has became a Anti Paladin! (Super Fun stuff!) So during all this personal turmoil my Paladin had become a key figure in our campaign's group, of other Good Alignment characters!

So here is my issue. This is a very complex situation that I have myself in, and would like to see what any of you fine folks might have as far as tips for me.Thanks!

-Scott
 

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Hereticus

First Post
There are two sides to playing an evil character (two extreme cases given)... one as a greedy, self-centered, power-hungry person who will cooperate with others to meet their objectives, and the other is as a hate-filled monster who doesn't cooperate well with others.

I like playing the first version, as I can always find a reason to align my goals with those of the group.

The second does not make for a good group dynamic, and the player usually gets bored with it quickly.

Some all evil groups are more cohesive than some all good groups. I have also seen too many good characters who can't get along with other good characters, because they choose not to be cooperative and use the excuse "that's what my character would have done."
 

ccs

41st lv DM
Don't outright betray/attack your fellow party members - unless directly ordered to by your new master....

You're Chaotic Evil. Not Chaotic Stupid, & not Stupid Evil.
(I presume. Though I could be wrong as you traded one false god for worse, rather than seek atonement....)

Do the other characters realize your evil?
Do they care?
How are you portraying being chaotic? Evil?
 

IrishIronGut94

First Post
Do the other characters realize your evil?
Do they care?
How are you portraying being chaotic? Evil?


As for the current state of the party. The Paladin is only suspected by one of the six others in his part. (A Goblin Shaman) And the only reason he isn't talking more about it, is cause he murdered one other part members and Paladin seen it a few sessions ago, and that mask had saved the Paladin's butt a few times. As for the second question, Yes the party "would" care if they found out that I was evil.

As for how he is portraying being chaotic evil is... The Paladin has back tracked to the town we all spawned in at the beginning of the session and has used it as a "testing field" for his evil acts. While the party is off in the country side of this town doing there tasks and what not, I will slip off back to town. So far I have sacrificed four people to Baphomet (through a ceremony that Bap had taught the Paladin. It leaves no body behind after its done) and leaves little to no evidence of the acts. Bap has told the Paladin that he enjoys watching chaos and seeing the suffering of others (So surprise, the demon lord love pain and chaos). So The Paladin has taken this as a challenge to cause chaos by removing people of power of the town. (The Mayor being the end goal of my evil works with the town.) So all in all, The Paladin is very scheming in his evil, careful to not upset the apple cart, and to use the reputation that the group has amassed over the months of good actions, to shield him from any suspension and accusations.

Also an update on my Paladin, the mask that hides his evil aura seems to have fussed with flesh. So thats new.
 

IrishIronGut94

First Post
But saying all that. The Paladin is worried about the Goblin. The Goblin knows something is up with my Paladin, and is clever and i wouldn't be surprised that he would of started to piece things together. The Paladin has thought about killing him, but he sees potential in the Goblin for some future task for possible sacrifice.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
The thing to remember is that evil doesn't just run around doing evil things just because. They have reasons for it and take circumstances into account. That means that you're not going to walk into a bar and just cut down someone for being in front of you, but if a death will further your goals and you will likely get away with it, you'll probably go ahead and do it. If you've read Dragonlance, Raistlin was a good example of an evil character. He rarely up and murdered people or did evil acts, but didn't shy away from them when he thought they were necessary.
 

I find it difficult to believe that a character who started out good, is now serving a demon lord who is quite clearly asking him to commit evil acts. Unless this demon is some how able to convince the paladin that he is killing/sacrificing evil people, it just seems a bit shallow to me. I like to think that evil characters, like all characters, don't consider themselves to be evil. No human willingly serves an evil master, unless they believe that their master isn't evil.

I also question the motivation of the Demon Lord. I know many DM's kind of play a Demon Lord as a cliche villain with no real motivation, other than being evil, just because. And I always find that to be weak writing. What does this Demon Lord hope to accomplish? And why does he need the paladin specifically to achieve this goal?

Airen - The Goddess of Chaos
To give you an idea of different way to approach this, I'll give you an example from my own campaign. I have cultists who worship the evil Goddess of Chaos, Airen. But to them she is a harvest Goddess. Because when ever good people pray to their Goddess of the Sun for a good harvest, it means there is drought somewhere else on the world. So to the followers of the Goddess of Chaos, the Goddess of the Sun is the evil one, because she brings drought. The Goddess of Chaos upsets this balance, but brings her cultists prosperity in the process. So to them, she is the good one.

Teehlyian'tara - The Lady of the Flesh
Another example is an evil entity known as Teehlyian'tara, The Lady of the Flesh. She is a godly being who corrupts everything. Like a plague, she festers where she can, and like a swarm of roaches, her essence is always spread among various vermin. To manifest her evil powers, she needs a body, preferably a woman. So what she does is she corrupts the body of a strong woman, who then becomes her avatar on the world. But she has followers in the form of cannibals, who believe she bestows great power upon them, and elevates them to godhood. These cannibals have driven many other tribes to flee the islands, but the cannibals believe they are the superior race who are meant to ascend to gods. They reject the gods of the tribes that they crush. They are zealots basically, but due to the cruel being they worship, this translates in all manner of unspeakable acts to worship her. Their goddess embodies corruption of the body, and thus her followers do the same to their own bodies (scarification) to be more like her, and to their foes, by making mockeries of their bodies after killing them, and wearing their remains on their clothes. The cannibals know their acts are cruel, but they believe they are the good guys who are meant to become as gods. Their deity is good to them, and grants them great gifts.

Villains and their cruel masters have motivations

Teehlyian'tara doesn't just want to corrupt people because she can. Corruption is the only way she can manifest her powers on the world. She is a weak evil being, who would not survive a direct confrontation with the established pantheon of gods. So like the vermin she is, she festers and corrupts the source of power of the other gods, allowing other stronger evil beings to do the dirty work for her. She is cowardly, but through her acts other far more dangerous beings are able to seize power. Like a roach, she does not seek to rule. She doesn't even have a body of her own! It is simultaneously her strength and her weakness that she is always spread like an infestation, and can never truly be eradicated.

So what is the end goal of this demon lord? What does he hope to achieve? And why would your paladin follow him? Is there any illusion in the mind of your paladin that he is doing good deeds? And if he knows that is committing evil, why is he doing it?
 
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Ryan_Czech

First Post
Lucky thing about being a paladin is that your charisma score is usually super high. So I would recommend building your character further along the lines of diplomacy/bluff and simply keep lying to the other PCs. The paladin could have a gruff exterior and make them question why they even pry into his secret paladin business anyway? Even if the other PC characters start to suspect things, how much do they even know about paladins anyway? Are any of them experts? No? So keep your evil paladin business private and just bluff any inconsistencies away.
 

delericho

Legend
Hello forums! Names Scott and I am playing through my first campaign

Welcome!

So here is my issue. This is a very complex situation that I have myself in, and would like to see what any of you fine folks might have as far as tips for me.Thanks!

Broadly speaking, there are two ways to play a 'difficult' character type - you can either be the guy who is awkward but in a way that makes the game more fun for everyone else at the table, or you can be the guy who is hell-bent on his own amusement and doesn't care whether the other players enjoy themselves.

Be the first guy, not the second.
 

Dover Cook

First Post
Welcome!



Broadly speaking, there are two ways to play a 'difficult' character type - you can either be the guy who is awkward but in a way that makes the game more fun for everyone else at the table, or you can be the guy who is hell-bent on his own amusement and doesn't care whether the other players enjoy themselves.

Be the first guy, not the second.

Hullo. I support this recommendation highly, given my experience with attempts at evil characters.
 

N'raac

First Post
A key question anyone should ask in designing a character is "what's wrong with this character?" Flaws and drawbacks make characters interesting, not just cardboard combat stats.

The immediate followup question should be "why would others want this character around?" That is, what does he bring to the table that overshadows his flaws.

If you can answer the first, but not the second, save this solo villain for a game you GM.
 


delericho

Legend
He can kill things, which will enable the party to loot more treasure.

So can every PC. Being able to kill things is pretty much the minimum standard required to even be a D&D PC. Why should the group accept this PC, with all his many flaws, rather than some other guy who can kill just as efficiently but without the hassle?
 

N'raac

First Post
I echo delricho. This is a real world issue all the time - great sports players that can't work with the team get traded. Skilled workers who can't work as part of the team or are a poor fit for the organization get fired. There are plenty of other adventurers out there - a PC has to have positives that outweigh his negatives, or there is no reason for the other PC's to work with him.

I don't run a lot of characters whose goals are limited to "slay, pillage and loot", so "I am really good at killing" isn't a selling feature. In fact, it typically seems the antagonists in most adventures are quite good at killing, and we don't tend to recruit, or sign on with, them either.

Of course, the other characters may well be focused on "slay, loot, pillage and become rich and powerful" alone. In that case, your character might fit right in. And if not, I'm sure he's worth a few xp and is carrying some useful loot :)
 

Hereticus

First Post
So can every PC. Being able to kill things is pretty much the minimum standard required to even be a D&D PC. Why should the group accept this PC, with all his many flaws, rather than some other guy who can kill just as efficiently but without the hassle?

Not true, not every character is effective in getting the job done.

As a player (metagaming), at a minimum I hope for three things in other players' characters:
- Will they be an interesting addition to the group?
- Will the player cooperate with the group?
- Will that character contribute to the party's effectiveness, so they don't just take up a treasure share and time at the table?

It's hard to completely separate my perspective as a player and that of my character. I do not like to play good characters; most are either lawful or chaotic neutral, do do play some evil characters. I really don't mind having an efficient evil character at my side, as long as they are not a monster that puts the party in danger. What I do despise are the good characters who tell me what I can't do.
 

Hereticus

First Post
Here is an example of a character that stunk up the field.

We knew that our party was short on front line damage dealers, so player X was going to create a ranger. It sounded good until he showed up with a gnome dog rider. The inept thing did 1d3 of damage and was completely useless in battle. The wizard and sorcerer were more effective combatants. Everyone in the group would have much preferred a CE half orc anti-paladin.
 

delericho

Legend
Not true, not every character is effective in getting the job done.

'Effective' is a relative term. I said they could kill things - and the way the classes in D&D/PF are constructed, in order to be unable to do that you have to deliberately sabotage your character.
 

Hereticus

First Post
'Effective' is a relative term. I said they could kill things - and the way the classes in D&D/PF are constructed, in order to be unable to do that you have to deliberately sabotage your character.

Not completely correct.

Some players are very capable of building an effective character, but choose to try out a concept that just doesn't work (see above dog rider comment).

Other players, no matter how they try, just can't create an effective character.

None of the above to cases involve "sabotage", yet they are ineffective.
 

delericho

Legend
Not completely correct.

Some players are very capable of building an effective character, but choose to try out a concept that just doesn't work (see above dog rider comment).

Other players, no matter how they try, just can't create an effective character.

None of the above to cases involve "sabotage", yet they are ineffective.

Again, I didn't say ineffective, I said unable to kill.

Everyone in the group would have much preferred a CE half orc anti-paladin.

Fair enough. By why would they take that CE half-orc anti-paladin over an LG half-orc paladin who was every bit as capable of killing, but without the added risk of betraying the group?
 

Hereticus

First Post
Again, I didn't say ineffective, I said unable to kill.

Sorry, I read that as one in the same.

Fair enough. By why would they take that CE half-orc anti-paladin over an LG half-orc paladin who was every bit as capable of killing, but without the added risk of betraying the group?

The jist of my statement is that after witnessing uselessness, they would have accepted a monster over that.

Sure, the LG paladin probably would have been better, unless it tried to prevent the party from being profitable!
 

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