Evil clerics who command undead

[Menexenus]

Recently I was looking at the rules for evil clerics who command undead, and I was surprised to read that they can only command up to their level in total Hit Dice of undead! Doesn't that blow half of the low level modules you've ever seen out of the water? How many low-level modules are there that have some evil (3rd level) necromancer commanding a dozen or so skeletons and zombies? According to the rules, this evil necromancer should be able to command no more than 3 skeletons and zombies. (Not much of a bad guy, huh?)

So here's the first question: How are we supposed to interpret all those modules where the evil cleric is commanding many more Hit Dice of undead than just his level? Exactly what's going on there, ruleswise?

BTW, here's another question I'm trying to answer. If the evil cleric can only command up to his level in HD of undead, then what happens to all the other undead that would have been commanded? That is, what happens to all the other undead who aren't commanded (because the caster has reached his limit) but would have been destroyed if the cleric had been good instead of evil? I presume they are rebuked instead. If so, does the evil cleric have to make another turn attempt 10 rounds later to keep them rebuked, or are these extra hit dice of undead *permanently* rebuked. That only seems fair since if they had been turned by a good cleric, they would have been permanently destroyed!

So here's my second question: What happens to the extra hit dice of undead who would have been commanded if the evil cleric hadn't hit his limit? You can tell me how you play it in your game, but I'm most interested in finding some official ruling. If anyone knows where to find it, please tell me what source you got it from.

Thanks.

 

[reanjr]

you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level

Add to that the cleric rebuke ability and you have 5HD worth of undead.

 

[frankthedm]

Even uncontrolled undead are evil bastards. Keep them trapped in a room and they still are likly to kill anyone doing the B&E. [Breaking and Entering]

 

[Menexenus]

OK, duh. Now that I think about it, I guess it makes sense that most evil clerics don't get their undead minions by rebuking; they get them by casting Animate Dead. So that pretty much answers the first question. But how about the second one? What happens to the extra hit dice of undead who would be commanded by an evil cleric if he weren't already at his level limit? I can't find any official rule in the PH or in the FAQ. Anybody know the definitive answer to this one?

 

[Endur]

So here's the first question: How are we supposed to interpret all those modules where the evil cleric is commanding many more Hit Dice of undead than just his level? Exactly what's going on there, ruleswise?

So here's my second question: What happens to the extra hit dice of undead who would have been commanded if the evil cleric hadn't hit his limit? You can tell me how you play it in your game, but I'm most interested in finding some official ruling. If anyone knows where to find it, please tell me what source you got it from.

With regards to your first question, the answer is the Dread Necromancer class. The Undead Mastery class ability allows the Dread Necromancer to create and control legions of the undead.

I'd love to see the second question answered, because I'm not sure there are any official interpretations and examples of evil clerics commanding undead.

 

[frankthedm]

If the undead ar too numerous to contol them all, I'd say the remainder that the cleric chooses not to control remain rebuked for the normal duration.

Evil Clerics and Undead
Evil clerics channel negative energy to rebuke (awe) or command (control) undead rather than channeling positive energy to turn or destroy them. An evil cleric makes the equivalent of a turning check. Undead that would be turned are rebuked instead, and those that would be destroyed are commanded.

Rebuked
A rebuked undead creature cowers as if in awe (attack rolls against the creature get a +2 bonus). The effect lasts 10 rounds.

Commanded
A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones.

 

[Menexenus]

But doesn't that seem unfair to evil clerics? If you put a good cleric and an evil cleric side by side who are exactly equal to each other in every respect except for alignment, the good one can destroy as many hit dice as he can roll, but the evil one can command only as many hit dice as he has levels. Evil clerics already get the shaft in comparison with good clerics when it comes to spontaneous casting. (Let's face it: spontaneous cures are *much* more valuable to a party than spontaneous inflicts.) Why should they also be get the shaft when it comes to turning?

Considering the lack of official rulings on the subject, I think I'm going to say that a cleric who would otherwise command undead if it were not for being at their level limit have rebuked those undead *permanently*. That is, it does not run out after 10 rounds. That seems to be the only fair way to deal with the situation to me.

 

[Storyteller01]

I thought I read somewhere that those undead above and beyond the clerics limit become uncontrolled undead, roaming about and doing undead things (walking, standing, grazing on the occasional set of teens looking to make out in the graveyard...).

As for inflict spells, the touch to ray feat makes for an evil surprise (albeit a 3rd party one)...

 

[Nonlethal Force]

But doesn't that seem unfair to evil clerics?

Not really. The evil cleric gets minions. The good cleric gets piles and piles of undead dust, guts, and flies.

The fact that the evil cleric's turning results in usable goods makes it more than just a numbers game.

 

[Vanye]

As for inflict spells, the touch to ray feat makes for an evil surprise (albeit a 3rd party one)...

3rd Party? WOTC's published it four times:
Reach Spell CD 84 You can cast touch spells without touching the spell recipient.
Reach Spell DD 51 The deity can cast touch spells without touching the spell recipient.
Reach Spell DF 20 You can cast touch spells without touching the spell recipient.
Reach Spell FP 215 You can cast touch spells without touching the spell recipient.

(from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/feats)