Evil wizard casting Protection from Evil on himself

[Raging Epistaxis]

It seems to me that casting PfG need not inherently be [Evil], but that a Good character should normally have no reason for seeking protection from other Good beings.

If a good character needs that protection, then there may be some question whether both parties are truly acting in a Good manner.

Perhaps the two Good beings conflict along the Law/Chaos axis and circumstances force them in to physical/magical conflict?

Alternatively, perhaps they would be working in concert against a common foe and one character wants increased protection against the other's area effect spells? hmm.

R E

 

[Thanee]

I'm thinking about playing an evil sorcerer summoner as my next PC, but I'm daunted by the fact that he has to know too many "magic circle against x" spells. I wish they were a single spell with several modes of casting like they used to be...

Learn one (the one against good in that case) and buy a wand for the opposite version.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Diirk]

It seems to me that casting PfG need not inherently be [Evil], but that a Good character should normally have no reason for seeking protection from other Good beings.

If a good character needs that protection, then there may be some question whether both parties are truly acting in a Good manner.

Meh, good doesn't mean saint, I don't see any reason to suggest that even good people might not come into physical confrontations when their other ideals oppose each other. They might be more likely to talk things out than two evil parties, but even that might depend on the circumstances. I'd be surprised you don't see it happening so often, but I guess the whole good vs evil thing feels alot more heroic to play.

 

[ARandomGod]

It doesn't seem wrong to me at all.

As an Evil Wizard, there is nothing you have to fear more than... Paladins other Evil Wizards!!!

No, seriously, I'd wonder why the EW learned it in the first place, as PfG is probably more useful, but PfE does help quite a bit, and it's not uncommon that evil fights against evil.

I'd find it more odd to see a good-aligned character with PfG.

Bye
Thanee

This is exactly what I was thinking. Evil characters really generally fear evil more than good characters do, it makes MORE sense for them to memorize and cast it. I'd even allow clerics to do so, assuming that they're being protected from an evil that's not directly their god (being protected from the god's other clerics by a PoE spell seems appropriately evil to me).

But evil people traffic with evil much, much more, and are more likely to need protections from that evil. Good. Pah. Good is a nothing alignment. Just apologize insincerely and believably, then stab them in the back after they've forgiven you. You don't need protection from THOSE idiots. It's the evil bastards like yourself you have to watch out for.

Ok... I can see the point on letting the EW casting PfE, but the point is this... I´m soon to DM an evil drow-campaign and we usually take alignment quite seriously... so that´s why I´m asking...

Drow. Case in point. If a drow were to memorize a protection from spell, (s)he'd be an idiot to memorize anything BUT protection from evil.

Casting a [good] spell *must* be a good act... but the point about the use of Magic Circle against Evil goes against this...

I think that the intentions are more important than the spell itself. As long as you aren't casting the spell to save any orphans or something. Unless, of course, you had important things to do with/to those orphans later. Or, once again case in point with the Drow, unless you were trying to prevent OTHER evil people from getting an advantage through their tortorous sacrifice. Stopping someone elses evil is not necessarily a good act, depending on intentions. It *could* just be chaotic or an evil power struggle.

On the other hand... if casting PfE is not a decidedly good act... why should casting PfG be an evil act, and then why should a good char be unable (or unwilling) to cast PfG if the right circumstances arose??? - one could easily find a scenario where good-aligned creatures would fight each other!

I gues I have to houserule it... - taking it spell by spell... *sigh*

This is a VERY black and white fantasy world (we play in FR) after all!!

I dunno... I suppose there could be the occasional reason to cast PfG as a good act. But that's just got to be more rare. Good people don't often go around trying to kill other good people. If that were happening, and you were trying to protect yourself it wouldn't be evil to cast the spell... but you would of cousre be somewhat obliged to not kill the good 'opponent' either. Perhaps he's been controlled/lied to in some way?

PfE on the other hand, evil people/critters need more protection from evil than any other type!

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Casting a [Good] spell is a Good act.

Protection from Evil is a [Good] spell.

Therefore, casting Protection from Evil is a Good act.

However, Good acts do not a Good alignment make.

Just like a Good necromancer can animate the dead - an Evil act - without immediate alignment repercussions, so too can an Evil spellcaster ward himself with Good without immediate alignment repercussions.

The only point where you want to start shifting alignments is when a character:

1) Actually has a change of heart - Evil acts aren't just done when absolutely necessary, but as a matter of course, because the character actually enjoys using them, or

2) You've codified some sort of "taint" rules, whereby a character who commits certain acts actually has their soul modified by those acts, such that by performing Good acts your character's soul is modified to be more Good, whether or not you like it

2 is dangerous, because it involves the DM telling the player how to play a PC.

 

[Thanee]

Casting a [Good] spell is a Good act.

I think that's what Hypersmurf would like to have an actual rules quote (or something similar) for.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nifft]

I'd love it if you could track down the quote. I've been looking for it for two or three years.

I will find it, or I will stop saying it.

-- N

 

[Staffan]

I'd love it if you could track down the quote. I've been looking for it for two or three years.

Book of Exalted Deeds has a list of things that are good. They do not include crushing your enemy, seeing him driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of his women, but it does include "casting good spells" (although it does mention that an evil spellcaster casting some good spells to further his own ends won't really amount to much in the great scheme of things). I think Book of Vile Darkness includes "casting evil spells" as evil acts as well.

 

[Sejs]

Do you think it should count as a "good" act to cast a [good] spell... so if the char casts PfE before every encounter, eventually he will shift his alignment closer to good...?

Right. As your summoner, I command you, Ralthgor, Lord of the Festering Pit, to go to the Castle of Fenglenland and kill all within its walls. Particularly the royal family. Yes, yes.. everyone there, particularly the royal family, then report back to me once you have finished. Feel free to be as cruel as you like in the persuit of their deaths.


... now if you'll excuse me, I have this sudden urge to go donate to an orphanage for some reason.

 

[EPRock]

Remove me plz