Evolution/Revolution of industry

[lmpjr007]

OK, With all this talk about the industry and how is going down, not going to survive the next "X" amount of years or whatever, I have been wondering and asking some tough questions of the industry recently to some friends and I wanted to place several of them online to get your feelings and comments on them.

1) Has the Gaming industry evolved: My feeling is NO. This industry is basically the same industry it was in the beginning. While compared to another industry that evolved out of us, video games, looks nothing like they did when they started out. They have evolved and are thriving. Why haven we seen to follow their path? Can we follow their path? What can we learn from what they have done?

2) Lateness and Vaporware: The issue on late games is beyond out of control in this industry and several other industries and I have to admit I played a role in that with my own products in this industry. How many products get talked about but never see the light of day or are so late it is just silly? There are some products that are more then two years late. This has to end if we want to be taken seriously. Period

3) Hobby or Business: I see this industry as a business and I treat it like a business. I know a lot of people, who make their living in this industry, but the majority of people involved in this industry run it like a “bad hobby” business and this is killing us as an industry. How many people out there read books on business marketing and strategy when developing their business plan for the year? How many people even have a business plan for next year?

4) Getting more new gamer blood into the industry: Now this is the most important thing in the industry and most of us do nothing to help build this area up. This issue is also plaguing large companies in related industries like Marvel and DC Comics. Since we don’t have anywhere near the same amount of money as these large companies, what can we do? Well here is my simple plan/challenge: Everyone who runs games at our local games stores or at home needs to, for a 3 three month period, run a game at one of your local libraries. The children who are going to the library on a regular basis and reading books are the type of people we need to add to this industry. Most gamers are serious readers. I think that this is something that your local gaming store would work with and support anyone who wanted to do this. New people in gaming mean new clients for them.

5) Evolution and Revolution: The industry is evolving, but to me it seems like it is doing it at the speed of a snail. The advent of RPGNow.com and sites like it are a natural evolution of this industry, but when was the last “real” revolution to the industry that help build and gain new customers and individuals to this industry?

Now I don’t have all the answers for this industry, but I am now making it my long-term goal to help this industry evolve and go through a revolution of change and the first thing I am going to tackle is how to get more new people interested in gaming. Thanks for your comments and support.

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

1) Has the Gaming industry evolved: My feeling is NO. This industry is basically the same industry it was in the beginning. While compared to another industry that evolved out of us, video games, looks nothing like they did when they started out. They have evolved and are thriving. Why haven we seen to follow their path? Can we follow their path? What can we learn from what they have done?

2) Lateness and Vaporware: The issue on late games is beyond out of control in this industry and several other industries and I have to admit I played a role in that with my own products in this industry. How many products get talked about but never see the light of day or are so late it is just silly? There are some products that are more then two years late. This has to end if we want to be taken seriously. Period

I feel the need to point out the slight irony in these two items, as the video game industry is often just as bad, if not worse, about lateness and vaporware as the RPG industry.

4) Getting more new gamer blood into the industry: Now this is the most important thing in the industry and most of us do nothing to help build this area up. This issue is also plaguing large companies in related industries like Marvel and DC Comics. Since we don’t have anywhere near the same amount of money as these large companies, what can we do? Well here is my simple plan/challenge: Everyone who runs games at our local games stores or at home needs to, for a 3 three month period, run a game at one of your local libraries. The children who are going to the library on a regular basis and reading books are the type of people we need to add to this industry. Most gamers are serious readers. I think that this is something that your local gaming store would work with and support anyone who wanted to do this. New people in gaming mean new clients for them.

I couldn't agree more. That's one of the things I'd like to accomplish with Thrilling Passages. It's a game that cries out for library and even school support. I think it will be a tough road to hoe, but I'm going to try like the Dickens (pun intended).

5) Evolution and Revolution: The industry is evolving, but to me it seems like it is doing it at the speed of a snail. The advent of RPGNow.com and sites like it are a natural evolution of this industry, but when was the last “real” revolution to the industry that help build and gain new customers and individuals to this industry?

Now I don’t have all the answers for this industry, but I am now making it my long-term goal to help this industry evolve and go through a revolution of change and the first thing I am going to tackle is how to get more new people interested in gaming. Thanks for your comments and support.

Ahem. Indie Press Revolution. I mean, it's in the name for crying out loud!

 

[lmpjr007]

I feel the need to point out the slight irony in these two items, as the video game industry is often just as bad, if not worse, about lateness and vaporware as the RPG industry.

OK. I have to admit that is true. But they also spends MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars in development and marketing of their games and I am pretty sure this industry does not do that. But one day I would like it to.

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

OK. I have to admit that is true. But they also spends MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars in development and marketing of their games and I am pretty sure this industry does not do that. But one day I would like it to.

Speak for yourself. The R&D budget for Dawning Star was 1.7 million.

 

[LeeHammock]

Speak for yourself. The R&D budget for Dawning Star was 1.7 million.

Ahem, I think we need to talk about my per word rate then.

 

[Cergorach]

1.) From my perspective the roleplay gaming industry has evolved, product presentation is so much better then it was ten years ago. And with the advent of an "Open Licence" (the OGL) for RPGs that is based on the most popular RPG ever, the RPG industry doesn't have to reinvent the wheel for a new game nor does it need to create a whole new gaming community.

2.) This happens, not only in the RPG industry or in computer game industry, hardware, cars, etc. Every industry has it's vaporware and it's late products, it's just 'life', things happen (finance doesn't come through, personal problems delay the project, etc.). I rather have people taking a chance with a kewl idea and it ending up late or vaporware, then not taking a chance at all (or just playin it save).

3.) Some 'scarry' things have evolved out of projects that where designated by the 'competition' as being a "Bad Hobby" business. Microsoft called Linux that some years ago, look at where it's now...

4.) A lot of folks scream that there aren't enough new gamers, that's only relative to the industry. RPGs never had a large following, but i highly doubt it that it's really shrinking. I can undertand that you want more gamers, that could mean more sales and more money. But that requires a bigger investment then a couple of hours at the library (and like you said most of you don't have the kind of money to spent on marketing). Personally i would say that your best bet would be to get folks interested in one thing pick up an RPG because it deals in that one thing. For example Buffy fans that never heard of an RPG picking up the Buffy RPG, or WarCraft fans picking up the RPG because the computer game was so damned kewl, or folks that like Neverwinter Nights so much they started looking at D&D (same goes for comics, movies, books, etc.).

5.) I think MTG was pretty revolutionary. It didn't bring a lot of folks into RPGs, but it sure made them move a lot closer to RPGs then they ever did before.

ps. I think Justin ment 1.7 million Roepi... ;-)

 

[Ed Cha]

Some of the best stuff ever published is by people who DON'T quit their day jobs and treat this as a "hobby business". A serious hobby business, but still a hobby business. So I wouldn't discount all the hard work of folks who don't do RPGs full-time.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

I'm glad you broached this topic. I've been thinking about these things a lot lately too.

1) Has the Gaming industry evolved: My feeling is NO.

I think it has somewhat. d20. The OGL. 3.5 is certainly more highly evolved than 1e. Its not really fair to compare the leaps in advances that have occurred with video games to pen and paper games because the advances in hardware and software have been so much more profound over the past 30 years than the advances in pens and paper.

However, I do think that the competition that we face from video games is the biggest threat to our industry. I personally know people who do not play pen and paper at all any more because they prefer video games. "Its so much easier to just play x-box than to spend hours rolling up DnD characters and writing games." They say.

2) Lateness and Vaporware:

I agree with you on this. Yeah, other industries have this problem too, but it is real bad in the RPG industry. There was a conversation here on EN World a few weeks ago where people were listing dozens of RPG products that were advertised but never released.

I thry to not say anything at all about a product until it is already done. That way, there no vaporware in my line. That's not really a good way to run a business though, so I don't advise everyone do it. I DO think that we should all do whatever works for each of us to reduce the rate of vaporware.

3) Hobby or Business:

I think this is somewhat related to #2, above.... I often think of what we do as being more analogous to the music industry than the printing industry in that the people producing the material often do it because they love it, not because they want to get rich. Some people do get rich in the music biz, but there are a lot of talented hard-working people who do it because they love it and never make it “big.” Because of that nature of RPGs and because of the very low barrier to getting into the business of publishing RPGs, the hobby/publisher will always be part of this industry. We need to figure out ways to maximize the positive aspects of that rather than seeing it as a problem that needs to be solved. It isn't going to go away, its endemic to the industry.

4) Getting more new gamer blood into the industry:

I agree that we need to do this, but how? Every day that passes sees stiffer competition from video games.

One idea I've had is to work harder on cross-promotion with other markets. You and I have both experimented with mixing classic literature with RPGs (you did some Shakespeare d20 and I did Glinda of Oz last fall). The problem with those is that they largely appeal to people who already game. Its not a bad angle to work, but I don’t see that bringing new people to RPGs.

Also, IIRC, the market research published by WotC back in the early days of d20 showed a very low correlation between readers and gamers. Perhaps it would be better for us to cross promote with the video game industry. The problem there is convincing people that PnP games are better than computer games. That used to be an easy argument to make, but it gets harder every day.

5) Evolution and Revolution: The industry is evolving, but to me it seems like it is doing it at the speed of a snail. The advent of RPGNow.com and sites like it are a natural evolution of this industry, but when was the last “real” revolution to the industry that help build and gain new customers and individuals to this industry?

I would say that the WotC buyout of TSR and the subsequent release of 3.0/3.5 has been the most recent "real" revolution to help build and gain new customers. However, I would agree with you that it isn't that "big" of a deal in the grand scope of things. The average gamer is still aging, which is not good for our hobby.

As an aside, I think the aging gamer is part of the reason why Wizards thinks there is now a market for adventure modules, where in the past there wasn't. As gamers reach middle age and have serious careers and families and responsibilities, they have less time for planning their own games and are starting to look more at published adventures than they did when they were in college or high school.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

1) Has the Gaming industry evolved: My feeling is NO.

after thinking about this a little more I think that perhaps we should not make the mistake that the railroads made back in the early 20th century. They failed to recognize the competition they faced from the trucking industry because they didn't realize that trucks and trains provide the same service and are actually in the same industry.

In a similar way, video games and PnP games are in the same industry. Smite Works is the best example so far of the evolution of PnP games and video games. When you talk about the "gaming industry" I think it is a mistake to segregate PnP games from video games.

Traditional video games where you basically play through a program run on a computer are clearly inferior to PnP games. But games like Neverwinter Nights and X-box Live bring a serious new level of competition to PnP games and we need to recognize that.

So since the gaming industry, in my opinion, includes video games, I'd have to say that the answer to your question is an unequivocal "Yes, the gaming industry has evolved significantly."

 

[GMSkarka]

4) Getting more new gamer blood into the industry: Now this is the most important thing in the industry and most of us do nothing to help build this area up.

I disagree. The data appears to support the fact that the industry is growing, not shrinking.

According to the C&GR state of the industry report which came out in April, RPG sales have dropped, yes, but dropped to a plateau that is still *higher* than it was before the release of 3rd Edition D&D.

Per-company sales still suffer though, because despite the larger consumer base, there are more companies going for slices of that pie, so each slice is smaller....but the pie is, undeniably, bigger.