Exceeding the Wealth Bonus?

[Masada]

The d20 Modern Wealth system has a lot of "specialness" but I was just pondering a situation that it doesn't quite cover--living beyond your means.

What if a player encounters the cliche "you have 48 hours to live"... What can he buy knowing he'll never have to pay it off? Or what if the heroes are in the UK and decide to buy a Mercedes and then skip the country? These types of purchase would be "bad choices", but they could be made... How would you tweak the system to account for this?

 

[Vigilance]

That's what the penalty to your Wealth is for: 1 point if the purchase is 1-10 higher than your Wealth bonus, 1d6 points if it's 1-6 points more and 2d6 points more if it's 16 or more higher.

Chuck

 

[Masada]

Right decreases in wealth equate to decreases in overall purchasing power as the cash flow balance begins to even out (cash in begins to equal cash out). But what if I sign up for 14 credit cards, secure financing on a new Cadilac SUV, go on a crazy gun and jewelry shopping bender and then drive to Mexico? I'm going well beyond what I can afford and skipping town.

I'm not suggesting this as a cheesy player tactic to get more stuff, but I can see it coming up as a totally appropriate roleplaying moment where a PC is basically selling out in desparation. For example, the PC is the only one that knows society is going to fall soon (asteroid or something), the PC has to flee the mob and never return, the PC is about to go on a suicide mission, etc.

I'm tempted to just grant something like a +10 Wealth bonus for "selling out", but then what would be the net penalty?

 

[Vigilance]

Im saying I think buying something SIXTEEN POINTS above your Wealth score *is* getting a dozen credit cards and splurging on stuff you know you can't make the payments on.

If you look at the average Wealth reduction, a -2d6 penalty to Wealth will reduce a middle class person to "Impoverished or in debt".

The "in debt" part is important.

In other words, you're a comfortable average joe who goes on a spending spree way beyond his means to someone struggling just to pay his bills.

In this case those bills might mean credit card bills, or you might have declared bankruptcy and are having wages garnished.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Im saying I think buying something SIXTEEN POINTS above your Wealth score *is* getting a dozen credit cards and splurging on stuff you know you can't make the payments on.

I have to agree with Vigilance on this one.

The character is deliberately using all available financial resources. This would be spending his entire wealth bonus. If he's dead afterwards then he doesn't care about the +0 Wealth. If he's still alive then he can worry about only being able to afford a cardboard box for an appartment.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

And the bigger point is, the Wealth system is supposed to be a fast, easy, and dice-interactive method for doing something that is very complex (track modern finances in the age of investments, credit, direct-deposit, and trust funds) ... not a system of "perfect realism".

It's akin to hit-points. One can say: "What happens in D&D when somebody gets their arm cut off at the elbow? Is that like, 10 hit points or do you say 20% of their hit-points?" Hit points doesn't really WORK that way. Doesn't mean they don't work, but you can't say: "I cut off his leg at the knee, so, he should lose 25% of his hit points and not be able to move, right?" That breaks the system. People really can get their leg cut off, and it really would hamper their movement, but allowing people to say: "Oh, I cut off his leg." unbalances things.

Same with: "Oh, I'm going to die, so I spend everything I have." In a game of high action, that might happen every week. "We're going to assault Count Raab in his high-mountain estate. Suicide. I go nuts and buy a tank. I'll worry about the consequences if I survive."

Knocking your Wealth down to +0 can mean anything you want "in story" and can be reached a number of ways ... buying many purchases only slightly above your means or taking 20 on a huge purchase. Maybe you take out lots of loans, or cash in your stock, or cash-advance your credit cards.

It's like you have 15 hit points and the GM says: "The Orc hits you for 15 hit points." You can say that the orc slashed you across the chest, or struck a mighty blow to your head, or stabbed you with his sword center-mass. And it's good to say those things. But, essentially, they're story that you build to explain what has already happened in the rules.

So, I wouldn't tweak the rules. If somebody wanted to go crazy and blow their wad in preparation for Count Raab, they can go ahead and roll for the items and spend themselves down to +0. Even somebody with +1 can take 20 and get something PDC 21.

--fje

 

[Masada]

Im saying I think buying something SIXTEEN POINTS above your Wealth score *is* getting a dozen credit cards and splurging on stuff you know you can't make the payments on.

Sorta... Wealth 0 means you're still paying the bills. There is no negative impact other than you can't buy anything over PDC 10 (and you have to roll for it). So if all things remain the same you still own your car, gear, home etc.

To take a stab at answering my own question I'll steal from a post on the WotC board that was similar to what I was thinking as a suggestion.

Going for Broke
The player can elect to put 5 points of wealth on the line in an extravagant purchase. After rolling to make the purchase the players loses the 5 points of wealth regardless of actually acquiring the item. The player can then add +10 to his/her Wealth check in addition to their current Wealth Bonus. The cost of the attempt is normally calculated and deducted with an additional 5 points lost. This attempt could put the player in a negative wealth situation.

Wealth below Zero
A negative wealth value indicates the character is swimming in debt. They are actively dodging debt collectors, have trouble keeping up payments on services such as cell phones, utilities, car payments, etc. The player can not make any purchases or attempt "Going for Broke". If wealth remains negative for more than 30 days, the player has no utilities or recurring services. After 60 days the player is homeless and will be actively fighting off vehicle repossesion.

 

[Committed Hero]

Im saying I think buying something SIXTEEN POINTS above your Wealth score *is* getting a dozen credit cards and splurging on stuff you know you can't make the payments on.

If you look at the average Wealth reduction, a -2d6 penalty to Wealth will reduce a middle class person to "Impoverished or in debt".

The "in debt" part is important.

In other words, you're a comfortable average joe who goes on a spending spree way beyond his means to someone struggling just to pay his bills.

In this case those bills might mean credit card bills, or you might have declared bankruptcy and are having wages garnished.

Don't forget, however, that the Wealth bonus is always assumed to rise with levels, as a counter to spending too much in between missions.

 

[Committed Hero]

Going for Broke
Wealth below Zero

Do you know if these have been playtested? They sound pretty interesting, if that's the sort of thing a GM wants to have in her games.

 

[Masada]

I haven't play tested either. I just made up Wealth below Zero. I think Nadaka (from the WotC board) actually uses Going for Broke. *shrug*

I never really have a problem munging the wealth system to accommodate what hairbrained scheme my players come up with. I was just mentally pondering what I would to do the Wealth system to simulate abysmally stupid purchasing.