Excerpt: The Warlord

[ThirdWizard]

It looks like your forgetting the bonus for weapon proficiency. At 5th level the warlord will likely have:

+2 (level) + 2 (weapon prof) + 3 (str) + 1 (magic weapon) = +8

Aha! Thanks!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

But you do have healers, perhaps not 'dedicated', but nonetheless, you still have the Paladin, Warlord and Cleric, plus individual healing surges. It will only postpone the problem. A bunch of bad rolls in the first couple of combats for the day, and without a 'healer', you are right back to your original issue.

The problem you are discussing isn't 'not enough healing', the problem you are discussing is 'precipitous hit point loss'. Any solution involving 'healing', either the frequency or the potency, is a patch on the underlying problem.

1) Who could heal at all? - Only with a spellcaster.
2) How long can you go? - As long as the spellcaster had healing spells. (Outside of combat, Wands work, too. You need someone that can use them, though.)

4E changes this to:
1) Every Leader-type class will be able to heal. And you can also self-heal.
2) You can go as long as you have Healing Surges. (outside of combats, you can do it yourself)

 

[Lacyon]

But you do have healers, perhaps not 'dedicated', but nonetheless, you still have the Paladin, Warlord and Cleric, plus individual healing surges. It will only postpone the problem. A bunch of bad rolls in the first couple of combats for the day, and without a 'healer', you are right back to your original issue.

Put more points in CON. Take the Toughness Feat. You can solve this problem with no party healer, without any magical healing at all.

The problem you are discussing isn't 'not enough healing', the problem you are discussing is 'precipitous hit point loss'. Any solution involving 'healing', either the frequency or the potency, is a patch on the underlying problem.

Precipitous hit point loss is a feature, not a bug.

 

[That One Guy]

I cannot believe people are still upset over the class name. If you don't like it, houserule it. Rule 0, folks!

this.

They Fight Crime.

Best quote of the day.

Silly question... could someone quantify how many strikers/defenders/etc. were released with PHBs/D&D sets in ye olden day (pre-3)? I know the roles were not so clearly defined, but could someone humour me?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Precipitous hit point loss is a feature, not a bug.

Abso.

Lutely.

I want to be at the brink of death and then come surging back much more than I want to be nickel-and-dimed for 10 rounds.

 

[TwoSix]

Jet Li

Jackie Chan

So you're saying a Warforged Warlord in Warplate with a Warhammer and a Warpick, and a Warforged Warlock with the Staff of the Warmage is wuxia?

 

[Caliber]

this.

Best quote of the day.

Silly question... could someone quantify how many strikers/defenders/etc. were released with PHBs/D&D sets in ye olden day (pre-3)? I know the roles were not so clearly defined, but could someone humour me?

Hrm. Been a long time since I thought about pre3E. From what I can remember, the classes in the initial 2E PHB (the edition I started in) were grouped together into rough groups, that could almost be seen as analagous to the roles we will have in 4E.

2E's PHB had ... Fighter, Ranger, Paladin (in the Warrior group), Cleric and Druid (Priest group), Bard and Thief (uh ... something group?) and Wizard (in Wizard group?). Of course you also had your specialized Wizards. The Bard and Thief weren't much in the Striker category really ... more like specialized skill users (and considering 2E's weird skill system, generally the only ones who actually used skills, IME). Priests and Druids were undoubtedly healers, with the Fighter/Ranger/Paladin line-up being Defender-Strikers. Wizards were (as in 3E) a pretty flexible guy, who would eventually grow into nearly any role he chose to dabble in. Still, the default was what would be a Controller in 4E.

All IMO, of course. And also in my sometimes fault memory.

 

[Voss]

The Warlord is a Str based class, Cha/Int are secondary abilities, there's no reason for the Warlod's atacks to be more than two, maybe three points behind the fighter, and often they'll only be the one point behind that Fighters get from their class.

Actually... with everyone using the same progression, there isn't a reason for the warlord's attack bonus to be behind at all.

 

[JohnSnow]

Abso.

Lutely.

I want to be at the brink of death and then come surging back much more than I want to be nickel-and-dimed for 10 rounds.

Stock up on post-apocalyptic supplies. I agree with Kamikaze Midget. Truly this must be a sign of the end of days.

I like precipitous hit point loss, as long as it goes hand-in-hand with the possibility to come surging back. That's why I liked Reserve Points in Iron Heroes and second wind in Star Wars Saga Edition, and it's why I like healing surges in 4E. Moreover, I personally prefer that we not have to worry too much about how tough the last fight was.

I like that hit points provide a simple way to model fatigue build-up as characters go through more fights. They're equally effective, but if they push on for too long, they're going to get tired and are more likely to get killed. Strangely, heroes seem to usually have this way of avoiding serious injury - short of getting killed, that is.

It's a good thing that characters in 4E can last through more fights in a day than their 3e counterparts. Before anyone says that "the problem has just been postponed," I'll point out that it's also a good thing that there is a limit to how long they can go on. This last point is a nod to "realism" - running out of healing surges is 4E's way of letting you know the characters are fatigued and need to rest.

I'll finally add the following, specifically to keep this "on topic." In my opinion, it's a good thing that characters can be "healed" by things other than divine magic. I have always felt it should be possible to have characters that are at "full hit points" (that is, totally combat effective) but sporting numerous superficial injuries. Obviously, the distinction is that superficial injuries are those which are healed enough that they are not going to get infected, go gangrenous, or lead to any of the other complications that frequently happen in pre-modern society.

It also seems to me that the Fourth Edition hit point system could be easily augmented with a houserule for serious injuries - if one was inclined to go gritty á la Black Company or Thieves' World.

 

[Stalker0]

Actually... with everyone using the same progression, there isn't a reason for the warlord's attack bonus to be behind at all.

Well we believe that the fighter gets a +1 class bonus to attack rolls, so he will be a bit farther ahead

The question is, what secondary options does the fighter have? Aka, will the fighter want to commit all of his ability bumps to strength?