Excerpt: You and Your Magic Items

[JohnSnow]

JohnSnow-

I totally appreciate the fact that gaming groups breakdown all the time for real life reasons, it has happened to me over the years. I guess the crux of my point was that I'd far rather simply give up the hobby rather than play with infuriating people with a sense of entitlement that would rather create the most uber character possible rather than actually play constructively as a team.

Oh, I totally, categorically, and absolutely agree with that statement.

 

[drjones]

I still don't like the harsh and unusual 1/5 sale price on magic items. Unless there is a sidebar somewhere in the DMG that gives a very good justification for it, I will probably ignore that rule.

It's pretty simple, you give them items that are up to 4 levels higher then they are. Letting them chose the perfect +4 levle item for their class woudl unbalance the game in their favor. So when they sell that +4 item they get enough cash to buy a -1 level item, which can be added to the straight cash they get to buy a equal level item or a +1 item which will be perfect for their class but not as unbalancing as a +4.

That's my guess anyway. The reason the 'markup' seems so large is that the bump from one level to the next in gold value for a an item is pretty big.

 

[Vael]

Even better, you can leave magic items in, but not worry about the plus, just the special abilities. I'll have to look at the full set of rules, but I'm very tempted to say that, all magic swords (for example) scale their bonus with the PC's level. That way, the ancestral weapon the dwarven warlord is always useful. Meanwhile, the tiefling fighter can continue to loot tombs for "better" weapons. A magic weapon ceases to be "+1" or "+4". It's just "+20%" and some toys.

I wouldn't necessarily do that for every item, but definitely for ancestral, signature or intelligent magic weapons. Yeah, here's someone else yoinking that notion.

 

[drjones]

As regards the Identifying issue, surely the DM only has to keep saying "no" if the players keep challenging all the rules? Who are these players that see a game, with rules, and just whine and complain about everything instead of just getting on and playing?

Exactly. I know finding folks to play with can be tough for some but you really have to draw the line somewhere RE: hanging out with jerks.

 

[MindWanderer]

Because finding acceptable and reliable players that will give the campaign a shot grew progressively harder as WotC released more and more splatbooks with even more powerful magic and more powerful classes, broken feats, and the like. They won't even give a low magic campaign a shot unless they're allowed to play whatever class they want, regardless if it fits into the campaign. WotC made it harder for dm's to run campaigns their way, with the increasing amount of player entitlement they put into their books.

Wait, what?

1. WotC releases books.
2. Your players like the content in those books and think they would enjoy playing in a game that supports them.
3. You don't like the content in those books and would prefer not to use them.
4. You get mad at WotC for creating products that people like, and mad at your players for wanting to play a game they'd enjoy.

Let me give you a head's up: although the DM is certainly supposed to have fun, you're ultimately a public servant. And you're only one person at the table. If your players like something, then give it to them! I'm sure you can still come up with a campaign which, though it's not your beloved brainchild, will still be fun for all involved.

You exhort your players to give a low-magic game a chance. Why don't you give a normal-magic game a chance? In fact, I bet you've done so in the past, and enjoyed it. You're probably looking for a change, bot because you disliked normal magic campaigns, but because you want to try something new. If that's correct, then change something else--something that will allow your players to have as much fun as you do.

Anytime DM fun and player fun becomes a trade-off, you have a dysfunction on a deeper level that needs to be addressed. Figure it out before you torture each other.

 

[drjones]

Honestly, I think the question this raises is “what does identify currently add to the game?”

I think ID was an attempt at balance in ye olde editions, they knew magic was powerful so they made an arbitrary/simulationist way of slowing down the use of magic items.

Thing is, it was a crummy way to add balance. It did not really slow things down, it was a speed bump after which you got the full effect of possibly an overpowered item. The real way to balance things is for the DM to carefully control what items are handed out, which is what the new edition is encouraging.

As for the simulation thing.. magic is the ultimate hand wave to begin with.

 

[keterys]

For those planning to give automatic +s, I'll note that you can quickly hit a thing where people no longer care about finding new magic weapons and such from like level 5-25.

I'm planning on having just a few items that are automatic levelling - so when the great npc paladin of the campaign dies and gives his blade to the party's paladin, it will autolevel with him and turn into an avenger someday.

 

[Kaffis]

My inner math geek is vaguely disappointed that the sale value 1/5 = buy value of (level -5) stuff didn't lead to a true exponential progression chart.

I was looking forward to my 276gp level 1 items and 1,380 level 6 items. The way they did it, by staking out the level 5, 10, 15, etc. level price points and dividing the difference between them evenly annoys me with the big jumps in marginal price. 4 -> 5 is a 160gp premium, but 5 -> 6 is an 800 gp one? Bleah.

I'm pondering what, if any, the effect would be if I just swapped out the price table for a smooth v(l)=200*5^(l/5) function. (v for market value, l for level) At its most basic level, if you assume non-magical costs are ultimately trivial, and that a party will seek to equip themselves with the spoils of their adventures, all of which are equally levelled to them when they achieve them, it seems like there would be no real difference from subbing out the value tables.

In reality, however, the very "bumps" that make me dissatisfied might allow for some gaming the system. Like, say, we take 5 items, disenchant them, and then make a new item of the same level. All is kosher, either system. But what if we were to take 3 items, disenchant them, and make an item one level lower. This is feasible at 5x+1 levels, but not 5x levels, I think. 3x360 = 1080 gp, enough to make the level 5 item from 3 level 6 disenchants. But take 3 level 5's and try to make a level 4... 3x200 = 600, falling short of the 840 needed. I'm not sure yet if this can be exploited to the players' advantage, rather than just being a quirk in the system.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I'm curious how the 4-level variance is going to affect character power levels. It looks like the math has taken into account the potentiality that a 1st level character could in fact acquire a 5th level magic item (say, a 1st-level Fighter with a Flaming Greatsword.) But I'm wondering what kind of sense it will engender among players, like

"Bob has a sword 4 levels higher than his character, and Jim's Wizard has an implement 3 levels higher. My highest level item is only 1 higher than my character, and we're only 200xp away from leveling!"

I don't want my players to feel like they have to stay ahead of the curve.

Oh, and I also like how Holy Avengers are no longer just for paladins.

 

[Kaffis]

That is beyond lame. Fighters who've never had magical training whatsoever shouldn't be able to identify magical poop, let alone the properties and effects of a magical item. Sure, they can feel the balance of a sword is better and that it fits their hand perfectly, but anything beyond that should require a person trained in arcane knowledge.

..

Please. Flaming weapons (and it appears, many others) do something neat and very visible on a crit. My fighter, in his 2 minutes of short rest, walks over to the nearest tree stump, and swings the well balanced sword at the stump 20 times (essentially taking 20). One of those times, it crits and bursts into fire.

Huh. This must be a flaming sword.

Ta-da!