Expanded domains (giving more focus to clerics)

[gpetruc]

In the standard D&D clerics tend to ve very less focused, even with the domans: many times they will do always the same things, cast the same spell and the only difference is the shape of the holy simbol and a few spells a day.

Now, here is my idea:
the aim is to have a divine caster that is more focused than the normal D&D cleric.

I was considering to slightly expand the size of the domain spell lists, to have them contain:
3 spells of lvl 1 to 3
2 spells of lvl 4 to 6
1 spell of lvl 7, 8, 9
In this way the domain contains more spells.
The other changes would be:

- Drop the +1 bonus spell from the domain. But you can cast the spells from your domains as normal spells (not limited to 1/day)
- Cutting down the "standard list" to a shorter one with the generic spells. Who cares about the domains if most of the spells are already in the list ?
- Add a "ritual" list for some spells that are cast only seldom, and in non-combat situations (raise dead, create greater undead, commune with nature and similar spells) (just for flavor, but see the Spontaneous option later)
- Keep the spontaneous healing/inflict casting

In this way the clerics would loose 1 spell/day, and have their (large) list cut down a bit, but they will get some new spells (good ones, also from the Wiz/Sorc list)

Another idea is to go even farther and have the spontaneous divine caster that has the following features:
- Cast as number of spells per day equal to a cleric, but spontaneously chosen from the spells known.
- Knows all spells from his chosen domains, and from a very (very!) small "universal" list.
- Know a few additional spells picked up at the other levels (but few. let's say 1/level or 1/2 levels), from a list like the general one for the non-spontaneous cleric. (still, a list that is smaller than the D&D cleric one)
- (optionally) can cast as ritual some of the "ritual" spells (still to decide how) (just to give them the option to use Resurrection some times, even if they won't probably take it as a spontaneous spell)

In this way he will loose his large list of spells, but gain spontaneous casting from a restricted list that should contain most of the focused spells but very few random ones.

What do you think of the idea in general ?
(I will work at the specific details later, but I have already some expanded domain spell lists using only PHB spells)

 

[Gothmog]

I like it- in fact this is exactly what I have done in my game. I went a little further than you are proposing though. I made a divine domain all clerics get for free, which contains the basic clerical spells (bless, prayer, etc) usually with 6-8 spells per level. Then, each domain has 6 spells from levels 1-3, 5 from 4-6, and 4 from 7-9, with some spells taken from the Wizard list when appropriate. I'd be interested in seeing what you have come up with, and once I get my notes organized, I'll try to post my list of domains here as well.

 

[Nifft]

I recommend using the Druid list before using the Wiz/Sor list (Produce Flame before Burning Hands, for example), and raising the level of Wiz/Sor spells by one to three.

IMC, I allow Clerics to spontaneously convert prepared spells into Domain spells... they lose the extra spell per day (just as in your system) but gain some flexibility.

-- Nifft

 

[gpetruc]

Then, each domain has 6 spells from levels 1-3, 5 from 4-6, and 4 from 7-9, with some spells taken from the Wizard list when appropriate.

I started with larget lists, but I found the problem that for more restricted domains (such as Light) I found it difficult to have a good number of spells (using the PHB only).
And so I reduced the number.

I recommend using the Druid list before using the Wiz/Sor list (Produce Flame before Burning Hands, for example), and raising the level of Wiz/Sor spells by one to three.

Thanks for the suggestion (actually this is what I already do). I usually go +1 lvl (or +2 for some particularly good spells).

 

[totoro]

I included more spells in the domains and if there were too few (some domains get more spells than others), then I just improved the domain feat. There are no generic cleric spells.

Also, I converted a bunch of the domain spells to channeling. You can, for example, detect undead and cast alignment spells (e.g., detect evil) with a turning check. I also made the spell lists generic so that everyone has access to every spell for a given level. (It works just fine, really). Certain domains provide additional turning checks (e.g., Earth allows turning of air elementals plus (house rule) some detection spells like detect elemental and detect minerals). Raise dead and resurrection are channeled, too (divine casters only).

Wizards don't have any access to alignment spells (e.g., protection from evil) because they are channeled, but they do get healing spells. And, wizards can only memorize one spell of each type per level (though they can metamagic a spell and cast it at a higher level). That makes sorcerers/wizards much different in effect (clerics, too, for that matter).

 

[woodelf]

I started with larget lists, but I found the problem that for more restricted domains (such as Light) I found it difficult to have a good number of spells (using the PHB only).
And so I reduced the number.

Either balance the domains by giving those with shorter lists cooler granted powers, or go the AD&D2 route and don't give everyone the same number of Domains.

 

[yennico]

IMC, I allow Clerics to spontaneously convert prepared spells into Domain spells... they lose the extra spell per day (just as in your system) but gain some flexibility.

mmh, domain destruction: always a spontaneous harm, destruction or wail of a Banshee
or domain death: always a spontaneous slay living
or healing: always a spontaneous heal
or travel: always a spontaneous teleport without error

This sounds like: More power to the clerics to me.

Just my 2 cents
yennico

 

[Spatzimaus]

IMC we used something similar to what Nifft said, except you swap for ONE domain spell per level, picked at the start of the day, with no metamagicking of domain spells allowed. In practice, it's worked out to be much more balanced.

If you allow them to swap for any Domain spell they know, then all those Prestige Classes that give bonus Domains suddenly get a LOT more powerful.

 

[Nifft]

This sounds like: More power to the clerics to me.

You must have missed the part where I re-wrote the Domain Spell Lists to account for the spontaneous casting.

-- Nifft