Expendable Items & Wealth by Level

Quidam

First Post
If a character focuses on expendable magic resources- scrolls, wands, staffs, potions- do they end up falling behind characters that do not insofar as average wealth for level goes? While I'm sure expendable resources were taken into account, if one uses them more than the designers compensated for, I wonder at how it affects balance.

Has anyone noticed this tendency- or lack thereof? Does the devaluation or expenditure of one of these resources simply mean that they get a larger share of the party split to get them back up to par? If so, does this disgruntle the rest of the party?

I'm playing a warlock and expect to go through a goodly number of wands. Considering picking up Craft Wondrous at 3rd and suggesting to my DM that we use it to redress any imbalance that manifests from a heavy wand focus.
 

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Logically it would turn out somewhat like you described, but... in reality, a character using most of his wealth on expendable things, will be more effective and "strong" in general, as expendable items are better than non-expendable, just uselimited.

It also comes down to, who's better at using the magical items at ones disposal.

1 more thing: How to you share treasure? i think thats and important issue too.
In our group, we go over the loot, giving the chars needing certain items (found within the treasure) without counting and equalising. All the non-useful stuff that we sell are devided equally amoung everyone..
 

Goolpsy said:
Logically it would turn out somewhat like you described, but... in reality, a character using most of his wealth on expendable things, will be more effective and "strong" in general, as expendable items are better than non-expendable, just uselimited.
And when the items have been expended? Less effective and "weak"?

Goolpsy said:
1 more thing: How to you share treasure? i think thats and important issue too.
We generally split evenly. If the split is evenly based on the loot that comes in, those who expend ephemera will slip behind the others whose items are chargeless.

In general, this shouldn't be too much of an issue, but as I state, I'm concerned about character concepts that focus on ephemera.
 

I would hold "equipment audits" every couple of levels to make sure that characters were at appropriate levels. Sometimes permanent items are ephemeral too; especially if rust monsters or black puddings are encountered. As a DM I'd play it by ear; if a character was careful with their resources they'd manage well enough, but if they blew through it too fast there would be a period when they had nothing.

That's very metagame, though.
 

Quidam said:
I'm playing a warlock and expect to go through a goodly number of wands. Considering picking up Craft Wondrous at 3rd and suggesting to my DM that we use it to redress any imbalance that manifests from a heavy wand focus.
I don't understand what CWI is going to do in this instance. You can't create anything until you get Imbue Item at 12th level.
 

Bad Paper said:
You can't create anything until you get Imbue Item at 12th level.

You can if you can get the requisite spells cast from another source- a wand or another party member without the feat or even a hired spellcaster. Scrolls are possible but harder for a warlock 'cos UMD'ing the needed ability scores is pretty difficult.
 

Quidam said:
And when the items have been expended? Less effective and "weak"?
YES! as you should be. Burning through scads of expendables make you shine like a lightbulb at the expence of burning out. If that sounds unfair, don't do it.

BTW Crafting a wand using another wand or other item, cost a few [sometimes not just a 'few'] charges

Crafting a wand requires one day per each 1,000 gp of the base price.

For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

Wand
0th 1 charge
1st 1 charge
2nd 4 charges
3rd 11 charges
4th 21 charges
 

Here is how we generally split items:

There are 3 lists of things a PC can have:

"personal wealth" - coins, gems, disposable equally distributed wealth, manufactured by PC items, bought items

"found wealth" - found items where each PC has their own owned items

"party wealth" - found items no PC wanted or the party voted as a party item (e.g. a Carpet of Flying), expendable items (e.g. scrolls, wands) and coins/gems (i.e. party fund), all of this belongs to the party


1) All items identified (if possible).

2) All found items put into the party pool.

3) All expendable items handed out to whomever wants them or can use them. Party vote or random die roll if two or more PCs want the same expendable item (e.g. Potion of Cure Critical). Found expendable items do not count towards a given PC's "found wealth" since no matter who carries them, they are still party items. If one gets sold, the funds then go into the party fund.

4) All money, gems, etc. split even. If they cannot split even, they get sold later on, and the money is then split even. The split wealth becomes part of the PC's "personal wealth". Any remainder becomes part of the "party wealth".

5) All found non-expendable items are acquired via request. The PC with the least non-expendable "found wealth" gets first choice on new items. If that PC still is below all other PCs in wealth of found non-expendable items, he gets first choice on his next item, etc. Once a different PC has the least non-expendable found wealth, that different PC gets first choice, etc. until all items are selected or not. If an item is desired by no PCs, it goes into the party fund to be sold / used by the party as needed.

This is equitable since each PC chooses what he wants and eventually, each PC is low man on the token pole and gets to pick first.

If a PC sells one of his "found items", that's ok. The money goes into his "personal wealth", but the item stays on the "found wealth" list as belonging to him. A player can easily take an expensive found item that he cannot use and sell it for cash. That's ok. But, his will be high up on the totem pole for future item picks.

6) All manufactured or bought items belong to the PC that manufactured or bought them. They are not part of PC "found wealth", they are part of PC "personal wealth".

7) If an item on the "found wealth" list is destroyed while adventuring, it is taken off the list and that PC's "found wealth" is lowered. If an item not on the "found wealth" list (e.g. "personal wealth" or "party wealth") is destroyed, oh well. "Personal wealth" and "party items" are both expendable.


The idea here is that each PC gets an equal share of everything, but they are also responsible for most of their stuff. A Wizard spends his personal wealth on spell books or scrolls, that’s ok. But, nobody else in the party is responsible for those. He is.

The reason we do it this way is that PCs often cannot "afford" to buy items from the party. Instead of keeping track of IOUs, we keep track of "found non-expendable items". A system of IOUs where the PC with the lowest IOU gets to pick first would also work.


Getting back to the OP's question, expendable items are either "personal wealth" or "party wealth". The PC who decides to have a lot of personal wealth expendable items is making a choice. He has a lot of short term firepower, but it comes out of his own money. On the other hand, the party could vote to pony up "party wealth" to purchase or have a PC manufacture "party expendable items". An example of this might be a Wand of Cure Light Wounds manufactured and used on the group by the PC Cleric. Or, a Staff manufactured by the Wizard to help out the party. The item is a "party item" if set up this way, so although the Wizard might carry and use it for the party, it is not his. Party wealth was used to manufacture it.

Since found expendable items are automatically "party wealth", it matters not who the Cleric uses the found Wand of Cure Light Wounds on.


And, this basically boils down to "party items/funds" and individual "PC items/funds". We just happen to also have the list of found items in order to determine fairness on who gets first pick on found items next.
 

Quidam said:
And when the items have been expended? Less effective and "weak"?

Not in my game. Say you have a wand of lightning bolt. A 50 charge wand (CL 5) costs 11,250 gp. That doesn't mean that they'll be 11,250 gp down for the rest of their adventuring career after its used up! No, I keep wealth constant. An X level PC is supposed to have Y wealth, so IMC an X level PC is going to have Y wealth, regardless of what they might have used in the past.
 

Thanks for all the replies!

KarinsDad, that's an interesting way of keeping things equitable.

frankthedm, I'm aware that the spell needs to be cast each day, with a day for every 1000gp- I was considering the usefulness of crafting wondrous items that simply cast a given spell once per day in order to take on longer crafting projects.
 

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