Extend with Vigor

[Bagpuss]

If you use Extend with the Vigor type spells can it put the duration above the maximum listed in the spell discription?

For example
Vigor, Lesser

has a duration of 10+1/round per level (Maximum 15 rounds)

So a fifth level cast would hit the maximum 15 rounds. If he cast an extended Lesser Vigor would it last 30 rounds or would the maximum restriction still apply so he gets no benifit?

 

[Bront]

Max should get doubled as well. You're paying the extra level for it.

 

[Bagpuss]

The reason the 15 round limit is there because 1st level spells shouldn't heal more than that as per the guidelines.

Should a second level spell be healing 30 hit points?

 

[Bront]

Vigor heals 1 HP per round?

Cure Moderate is 2d8+10 max, so up to 26, 36 if you have the Improved Healing feat from CD (or whatever that feat is that turns the +1 per level into +2), so Spell+Feat healing 30 at level 2 is about in line with everything else.

 

[shilsen]

Vigor heals 1 HP per round?

Lesser Vigor (1st lvl) does 1 HP a round. Vigor (3rd lvl) does 2/rd.

 

[Bront]

Thanks.

Yeah, I don't see that as a big deal, because you had to take a metamagic feat for it. Besides, it's not like it's any more useful in combat (Unlike Cure moderate)

 

[kjenks]

Main 3.5e FAQ
===
The vigor series of spells (found in Complete Divine)
raise an interesting question. Does the built-in maximum
duration of each spell limitation override the effect of the
Extend Spell feat?

Yes. Extend Spell still increases the spell's duration, but
only up to the spell's listed maximum duration. Use either the
normal maximum duration or the doubled duration, whichever
is less. If a 7th-level druid used Extend Spell on her vigor spell,
the duration could not increase beyond 25 rounds.
===

Bagpuss, the FAQ is a lot easier to search than these message boards. Next time you have a rules question, it would probably be faster to check there -- and you'd get a more authoritative answer than, "Some guy on a message board told me so."

 

[Infiniti2000]

...and you'd get a more authoritative answer than, "Some guy on a message board told me so."

The difference is that the "some guy" will actually provide rules quotes and tell you the potential loop holes. The FAQ does neither. The FAQ, in fact, does not even tell you when it makes a WAG. Or a mistake.

So there.

As for the question, the duration doubles as long as it's not "a duration of concentration, instantaneous, or permanent." So, double the duration. A duration of "10 + 1/L (max 15)" becomes of the following:

1. [10 + 1/L (max 15)] * 2 = 20 + 2/L (max 30)
2. (10 + 1/L) * 2 (max 15)

Either is perfectly acceptable because no where in the rules does it tell you not to double the "max" when the max is listed in the duration. If the max is reiterated in the spell description, however, then you get a conflict and likely have to use answer #2. I don't have the book on hand, unfortunately, and so cannot look it up for sure. If the max is only mentioned in the spell description, then it doesn't get doubled and you get #2.

 

[Bagpuss]

Vigor heals 1 HP per round?

Cure Moderate is 2d8+10 max, so up to 26, 36 if you have the Improved Healing feat from CD (or whatever that feat is that turns the +1 per level into +2), so Spell+Feat healing 30 at level 2 is about in line with everything else.

The feat in Complete Divine - Augment Healing only means Conjuration (Healing) Spells cure an additional 2 hit points per spell level. Not increase +1 per caster level from +1 to +2.

So it would do 2d8+14 max. for 30 not 36. So it seems fair that a Lesser, Vigor Extended can heal 30 points as well.

An extended Vigor could heal 100 hit points for a 4th level spell. A cure critical wounds does a max of 52 points, or 60 with Augment Healing.

Extending the Lesser doesn't seem to have a balance issue and I'm not even sure the normal Vigor does considering the healing is over an extended period of time. In combat you are more likely to use a cure spell, for the quick boost, and a Cure can be Empowered after all. Vigor, Greater (5th) does 140 or 280 extend (6th) (assuming you ignore the FAQ answer), considering heal 6th level has a maximum of 150 pts. I can see why the FAQ decides that the maximum is a maximum other wise it breaks the normal limits for spells.

 

[Twowolves]

IIRC, the orignal wording of the Vigor spells made no mention of a maximum duration, but when reprinted in the SC, they specifically put that in to address the qualms some had of Extended Vigor. Part of the reasoning, I believe, was that wands of Extended Vigor were SO much better than wands of Cure Moderate Wounds, outside of combat. Your "hp/gp" ratio for non-combat healing was way off when using wands/scrolls like this.