extended rests

[draquila]

Are your PC's pregens or custom built by the players?

If custom you might have an optimization problem like I have in my game where combats are hard because your party isn't doing the expected damage.

They're custom built, and not particularly strong. I'm letting them rebuild from scratch now that we all have a better idea how the game plays.

For the game to work well they need to trust that you will be constructing fair and balanced encounters, you need to trust that they are not going to abuse the situations.

Thanks for all the tips . Yeah at the moment I'm not sure I trust myself to construct fair and balanced encounters. And seriously, while I have had some experience with video games that involves tank/heal/dps, this party are really newbies with the whole thing. I think if any of you witnessed our first game you'd all be horrified. The main reason they all blew their dailies is because I misunderstood the rules about calculating attack rolls for melee powers (didn't include weapon proficiencies) and they just kept missing. And the ranged strikers had no concept of hiding behind the defenders. We didn't even mention opportunity attacks until encounter 3, because it was impossible for them to grasp so many new concepts at once. I think our game can be summarised by what the Fighter said at the end:

"Oh I finally figured out what 1d12 means..."

They sound as if they view taking extended rests as save scumming, when they're not.

That's a bit harsh... I never actually explained extended rests vs short rests to them during the game (because I hadn't read up on the rules about them at the time, myself).

So anyway, that's why I'm going easy on them. I think they deserve to get their dailies back given the fact that I'd made so many mistakes with the rules ("So you can move and attack diagonally, lol?") - it doesn't make a lot of RP sense, but yeah, we're just starting out. I think it's ok to make some mistakes.

My initial question was more for future reference than our current game, where I just feel like I've gotten myself in a bit of a hole.

 

[Maximilia]

I'd really look into the encounters you are planning. Our DM is... he pushes us pretty hard and we're forced to be creative. Very, very creative. And sometimes argumentative, which is not a good thing in most cases. (A good couple examples of this is that we're level 7 and have... six magic items in a party of 4. And I made two of those. Second example--when using Wizard's Escape (immediate interrupt), he ruled I still took the damage anyway... tough, I tell you)

*twitch* Anyway. For the "prison break" scenario, first if I were the DM I'd start off with a very light encounter--couple of guards. Maybe one might be a striker, but they could both be minions. This is them "overpowering" the guards that were on them. Second encounter, a random patrol in the halls, maybe no more than four or five guards, most of which are minions, and one of them runs off to ring the alarm bell.

At this point, the party has options. If the guard got away, then the alarm bell has been rung, and things get way more difficult for them. Say, they hit random patrols which are looking for them, and suddenly, they have a time limit before complete lockdown. If the guard didn't get away and ring the alarm, then they can continue on towards the gates or the escape hatch in the basement (whereever they're going). Put another encounter in their way--say a barracks that they have to sneak past or otherwise take out. This fight should be a little tougher--couple strikers and a semi-tank and lots of minions--but not undoable. Finally, the end encounter should be a semi-boss sort of thing... maybe not as tough as an Elite, but (if they are level 1) a level 2 or 3 mob instead of level 1's as they had been facing.

However, at no time would I give them an extended rest. Short rests, yes. Extended, which must last at least six hours? No. As people said before, it's not realistic.

Also, be sure to sprinkle healing potions and the odd magic item here and there. Let me tell you--having a group with hardly any magic items and no healing potions (save what I can make) can fray relations with the DM, and lead to players abusing powers to gain every single advantage they can. Because they need it.

... no, I'm not bitter. lol

 

[Black Knight Irios]

draquila you and your party seem to be pretty inexperienced, as you have said yourself, therefore I suggest you read some more in the PHB and on XP budgets for encounters in the DMG.

Make sure you know what actions a creature (players and monsters) can take on their turn, how OAs and immediate actions function and the class specific things of your players' classes. How attack bonuses are calculated and what an AP does. Don't bother with Grab or Bullrush or things like that.

Print out some nice sheets for your players that summarize action types and what they can do with them. The types of powers (at-will, encounter, daily) and what they mean. The combat basics on one sheet.

Ask your players to print their powers/class features/items/whatever on sheets or better on cards for easy reference. They can write down numbers on them and whatever they need.

For your future encounters:

• Design them on the easy side. If your players grasp the rules and start to act more tactically increase the xp budget for encounters.
• Don't throw encounters with many dazing/stunning/dominating monsters at them.
• Resist the temptation of using one very high level monster in an encounter that fits the xp budget. Use a lower level elite/solo version.

I hope that helps a bit. Have fun with your prison break.

 

[jbear]

Tabletop RPGs are a lot about trust, and it goes both ways. They players need to know you are not going to feed them to the lions, and you need to know when the players are going to scam you. It sounds as if they are taking advantage of your generousity, and the simple solution here is to take it away.

They sound as if they view taking extended rests as save scumming, when they're not. You need to firmly establish with them why you take extended rests and when to take them. If they want to take one too soon, find some way to limit them.

"The ground here is stony and wet and you can find no place to set up camp."
"The road is filled with brigands/ghosts/wolves."

Extended rests should either be taken when the party is at the end of their tether (very low on healing surges), the wizard/swordmage needs to switch spells from their book or there is some quest-specific reason (eg, you're in a town and there's a curfew and you want to stay on the right side of the law).

If the party realises you are limiting their extended rests, they may be more choosy when to take them and therefore better with their daily powers. (I agree that Daily Powers should be saved for bosses and for last resorts). And if they still insist on taking extended rests, then interrupt them with a random encounter.

And there is nothing like an encounter when you have no healing surges, no dailies and you are on level 1. Living on the edge, baby!

'Taking advantage of your generosity' might be just a wee bit harsh on a group that have played a single session of D&D in their life

 

[Squire James]

The player characters wake up in their cells after a bad dream! They plan to break out this day, and they have a chance to discuss a better plan!

Run an interactive flashback of the events leading up to the imprisonment - the players play it as if it were a normal game but with full knowledge their characters get captured soon. Have a few encounters to gauge what they can handle under less urgent circumstances (and a few more XP won't hurt either), then run the capture as an event ("and that's how you got here") rather than an encounter. It's a lot easier to be generous with extended rests when they're NOT running from somebody!

Now you can run the prison escape. You and the players now has more experience, and you can keep it clear that there will be NO extended rests during the escape! Make the first two encounters simple enough that they should be able to win them with no daily powers, and if someone wants to use a daily, you can remind them that there is a lot more to go still. If they still want to use it, go ahead, but allow NO extended rests!

Get the players used to 3 to 5 encounters between extended rests, and the game will generally go a lot more like the designers intended.