Extra Spell Feat Advice/Ruling Requested.

[Falcon]

Hey Everyone.

I have a 5th lvl human sorcerer joining a campaign I DM and one one of the feats he wants is Extra Spell, but he wants to hold onto it until 6th lvl. At first, I balked, thinking that he should take the feat at 3rd lvl and use it at that lvl, but then I read the explanation in T&B, where 4th lvl wizards and sorcerers are cited as examples. In one respect, it is meta-gaming, since he is coming in at 5th lvl, but I also understand the idea of what he wants to do.

It seems odd to take such a feat at 3rd lvl, and it makes sense to take it at 6th lvl. Anyone know the ruling on how Extra Spell works if you don't take a spell right away and wait a few levels?
Thanks.

 

[Crothian]

You can't. If you take the feat you must define the feat at that particuliar time. Some people allow PCs to hold feats for a few levels, but that is to easily used to get around prerequistes. I'd have him chosse a different feat for his third level feat, and then pick extra spell with his 6th level feat.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

If you take it at 3rd level you will get an extra 0-level spell. If you take it at 6th level you will get either an extra 0-level spell or an extra 1st level spell. I would not take it until at least 6th level. You can't take the feat at 3rd level and choose the extra spell at 4th level in order to get an extra 1st level spell. You choose the spell when you take the feat.

 

[Orco42]

I agree with Zoom and Crothian.

The example must be from a multi classes character.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think the literal interpretation of the rule is that you must determine the features of a feat and must take it at the appropriate level. Just like you gain your skills at the appropriate level, your hit points, your BAB, saves, etc.

However, there are some feats for which this makes them less worthwhile.

For example, Spell Mastery and Spell Signature.

You should be able to hold onto a feat so that you can later on put Spell Mastery into it and get spells from a variety of levels, even levels beyond when you would have initially have gotten the feat. This would make the feat versatile, but at the same time, you would not be getting the benefit of it until you actually take it.

So, according to the literal rules, you cannot get Spell Signature Haste until 9th level, even though you would have 2 or 3 feats previous to level 6.

 

[Victim]

I think the literal interpretation of the rule is that you must determine the features of a feat and must take it at the appropriate level. Just like you gain your skills at the appropriate level, your hit points, your BAB, saves, etc.

However, there are some feats for which this makes them less worthwhile.

For example, Spell Mastery and Spell Signature.

You should be able to hold onto a feat so that you can later on put Spell Mastery into it and get spells from a variety of levels, even levels beyond when you would have initially have gotten the feat. This would make the feat versatile, but at the same time, you would not be getting the benefit of it until you actually take it.

So, according to the literal rules, you cannot get Spell Signature Haste until 9th level, even though you would have 2 or 3 feats previous to level 6.

I'm tired, so there's probably an error in my thinking.

That said, couldn't a wizard take Spell Mastery with haste using his level 5 bonus feat and take signature spell at 6?

 

[Darklone]

Hey Everyone.
It seems odd to take such a feat at 3rd lvl, and it makes sense to take it at 6th lvl. Anyone know the ruling on how Extra Spell works if you don't take a spell right away and wait a few levels?
Thanks.

It all comes down to the houserule if you allow players to wait with a feat some time. If you allow them not to choose the feat at 3rd level but keep it a while free, then he can do it. Your choice.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'm tired, so there's probably an error in my thinking.

That said, couldn't a wizard take Spell Mastery with haste using his level 5 bonus feat and take signature spell at 6?

Yes he could.

I was forgetting that Spell Mastery was also allowed as a Wizard's bonus feat. Thanks.

What is strange, though, is that Spell Signature is a general feat, so it cannot be taken as a Wizard's bonus feat.

 

[Archer]

Extra spell feat and extra slot feat are so underpowered its ridiculous. Extra spell feat should add one spell of every odd level (1,3,5,7) but not equal to or greater than the highest level you can cast. Taking it again should give a spell at every even level (0,2,4,6,8) with the same restrictions. If you do this it makes no difference when you take the feat and it scales as you go up in level. Extra low level spells mean nothing when you are 15th level and up. These extra spells are not doubled by ring of wizardry. Compare this to spellcasting prodigy.

Extra slot should be an extra spell known of every level each time you take it. Instead of getting 4. 5. or 6 max spells of each level you get 5, 6, or 7. You still only know a tiny fraction of the possible spells but you have a little more variety for spend one of the few feats you get as a sorceror. This change makes the timing of when you take the feat irrelevant as well.

 

[apsuman]

Extra spell feat and extra slot feat are so underpowered its ridiculous. Extra spell feat should add one spell of every odd level (1,3,5,7) but not equal to or greater than the highest level you can cast. Taking it again should give a spell at every even level (0,2,4,6,8) with the same restrictions. If you do this it makes no difference when you take the feat and it scales as you go up in level. Extra low level spells mean nothing when you are 15th level and up. These extra spells are not doubled by ring of wizardry. Compare this to spellcasting prodigy.

I disagree, I think that Extra Spell is a good feat for those sorcerers to get that one extra of third level.

If you think it is underpowered, have it give the spell chosen via extra spell to be cast as if the caster were 1 or twl levels higher.

g!