extra spell feat

Mark1733

Explorer
8th level sorcerer--looking at a new feat at level 9. Now don't get mad at me, but I don't have any metamagic feats yet which are prerequisites for several other metamagic feats. I have several ranged touch and melee touch attack spells. Suggestions?

Current feats include: Combat Casting, Point Blank Shot, and Weapon Finesse

Things I am looking at:

Extra Spell (this is my first choice since I am obviously limited)
Battlecaster Defense
Weapon Focus (ranged spell or touch spell)
Sudden Extend
Explosive Spell

Unfortunately the following feats which I would like are out because I don't have a metamagic feat yet:

Sculpt Spell
Energy Substitution
 

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I'd take a prerequisite feats; from your list, that's Explosive Spell or Sudden Extend. Unless there's a 3rd or lower level spell you just have to know, right now, in which case get Extra Spell; but at 9th level, you'll get another 2nd, 3rd, & 4th level spell, so that seems unlikely.

Do you have enough area-effect spells to make Explosive Spell useful? Since it's +2 level (unless there's an errata I missed) feat, you won't be able to use it on a fireball or lightning bolt until 10th level (when you'll have 5th level slots).

Personally, I think I'd rather get Extend Spell than Sudden Extend -- how often do you need to cast an extended spell and only have a standard action to do it and don't have the higher level slot to cast it?
 

Why, oh why did you take weapon finesse?

I can understand the desire to be better at melee touch attacks, but as a sorcerer you should avoid being in those positions in the first place. You have a limited number of spells known and your AC is probably not that good.

You would have been better with a metamagic feat (as you are now discovering the need for one as a prerequisite).

Unless you went with the battle sorcerer class variant {from Unearthed Arcana} (which would have given you light armor proficiency).

I would go with sudden extend (to meet prerequisites for later).
 

Unless you are getting Precise Shot, I would retrain Point Blank to get a metamagic feat of your choice, thus leading to another one that you really want.

I agree with Eggert, why Weapon finesse? Unless you have a Str of 5, may want to retrain that one. After your Sorc shouldn't be that close in combat.
 

Well, on top of that, most people would probably take Skill Focus Concentration over Combat Casting. :)

What spells do you know currently? I really think you'd be better off with a metamagic feat so you can get the two you really desire later on. Depending on what spells you know, Extend Spell and Empower Spell tend to be the best no-prerequisite metamagic feats for a sorcerer.

If you can retrain and pick up both a prereq and Sculpt Spell or Energy Sub, note that for your level 12 feat there's one in C.Mage to cast metamagic'k spells with no casting time increase. It's called Rapid Metamagic, I think.

What books do you have access to? The Dragon Magazine compendium (and crystalkeep's database on feats) has sorcerer bloodline feats which give you a specific spell for each level 1-9, and each feat typically has at least 3 nice spells. Choosing a thematically appropriate bloodline could give you much more than Extra Spell if that's available to you.
 

Okay...let's start with the first question...why, oh why, Weapon Finesse? Cuz I didn't know any better. Actually, my original concept was for this character to be in melee a lot more than what he is--more of a Battlecaster or Warmage concept. I didn't really know of those yet, though. We started at 3rd level, so I had to pick 2 feats to begin. He started with touch and ray attacks and uses a sickle for melee. I picked Combat Casting and Point Blank Shot. Later I picked the Weapon Finesse because of the touch attacks I wanted to continue using and also the sickle, both being light weapons. Plus my Dex is better and was eager to get into the thick. It was all for character thematics mainly. Also, I was only working from the PHB at the time. I really didn't know of the feats from the other handbooks. Later I got all the other resource books (CA, CM, SC, etc.). Once I saw ALL the possibilities, I could see how I could have rethrought the character and have different options for his progression. That is all the additional resources I really have access to.

Well, on top of that, most people would probably take Skill Focus Concentration over Combat Casting. :)

Good call on the Skill Focus Concentration (+3 for all Concentration Checks vs +4 for casting only, right?).

Do you have enough area-effect spells to make Explosive Spell useful? Since it's +2 level (unless there's an errata I missed) feat, you won't be able to use it on a fireball or lightning bolt until 10th level (when you'll have 5th level slots).

Personally, I think I'd rather get Extend Spell than Sudden Extend -- how often do you need to cast an extended spell and only have a standard action to do it and don't have the higher level slot to cast it?

Well, right now I have Pyrotechnics (assuming explosive spell would be used on the choking smoke 20-ft in all directions), Rainbow Blast (line effect), and Force Missiles (which has a burst effect to all adjacent squares). Unfortunately, the Force Missiles is my highest level spell (4th). Pyrotechnics would be the only one available for any good effect since I have to use 2 more levels. But later at 12th and 15th, my Rainbow Blast and Force Missiles would be served well by Explosive Spell. On the other hand, I am looking to get Whirling Blade (2nd) and Weapon of Energy (3rd) at 9th. Whirling Blade which is a 2nd-lvl spell with a 60-ft line effect, the idea is to cast weapon of energy on my sickle and toss it with whirling blade. That would be greatly enhanced with the explosive spell feat. If I did that, I could whirl it up to 5 times with energy on it within 9 rounds. It would be a decent trade off on the Force Missiles.

Most of my other spells are instantaneous touch or ranged attacks, except for mage armor and haste. I don't think the Extend does much to help me out more than once per day as I mentioned above.

If I took the Extra Spell feat, I feel the pressure to get either greater invisibility or fly neither of which sounds interesting to my chaos sorcerer although my party would like either of those. C'est la vie.

My thought on sudden extend is this...I get an extra spell. Because I cast Haste several times in a game session, I would most likely extend it for the big combat. It seems like we tend to have short combats of about 10 rounds where one casting of Haste covers them, but then that last combat of the session goes about twice as long. And I wouldn't need to tap into my slots of higher level spells needed for that big combat. So at this time, I could get 18 rounds of Haste on 9 friends with a single casting--that seems pretty darned good for fighting that big boss enounter...and I haven't used up any other higher powered spells to fight with. It simplifies my battle tactics, for sure. Additional casting time not an issue either way. Most of my other spells are instantaneous or otherwise of no appreciable duration which means I would only have it for this one simple, concise, easy to play reason + it satisfies a prerequisite. Maybe that's not enough?
 
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Arcane Strike.

I'm sorry I can't help you further, but you need a good Psychic Reformation or two to rebuild your character.

I recommend grabbing Limited Wish at level 14 and using it to duplicate Psychic Reformation (it's in the SRD) and switch your spell choices and feats to something better.

You'll want to start taking levels in a prestige class. I reccomend Fatespinner, if you qualify, which you might be able to pull off on your 8th level.
 
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Arcane Strike. It's killer and awesome. Extra Spell at 9th level will get you a 4th level or lower spell, so unless you need to pick up haste, dispel magic, or some other bread and butter spell I'd wait until 12th level. Even then... how about Improved Toughness?

Don't get sudden extend spell... even at 9th level, it's unlikely you'll have to recast very often. Don't get Energy Substitution... take one one of the shadow magic evocations instead, or start angling toward Archmage.
 

Good call on the Skill Focus Concentration (+3 for all Concentration Checks vs +4 for casting only, right?).

Yup. Combat Casting is on casting defensively only, doesn't even help in a grapple (if I were DM, I'd allow it, as it seems in the spirit of the feat and it's weak, but that's not RAW). On a side note, taken as a level 6 feat (it requires ~8 ranks, iirc), you could also snag Steady Concentration from Races of Stone as an alternative. Lets you always take 10 on concentration checks. If you simply need to not roll low to make the DC, it's much better than either Skill Focus or Combat Casting.

If I took the Extra Spell feat, I feel the pressure to get either greater invisibility or fly neither of which sounds interesting to my chaos sorcerer although my party would like either of those. C'est la vie.

You definitely should check out the Anarchic Bloodline feat, at least the crystalkeep version, on page 113 here: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf

Anarchic Bloodline
Requirements: Able to cast Impromptu Arcane spells, Able to summon a Familiar
You are descended from a Chaotic Outsider, possibly a Demon, an Eladrin, or even a Slaad.
1. You cannot learn spells with the [law] subtype. These spells are removed from your spell list.
2. Add the following to your Known spells:
1. Color Spray
2. Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
3. Rage
4. Confusion
5. Mind Fog
6. Mislead
7. Prismatic Spray
8. Maze
9. Weird

Lots of fun options there. I also like the Penumbra and Fire bloodlines, but Anarchic probably fits your character the best.


Even then... how about Improved Toughness?

C.Mage has Minor Shapechange (reserve feat), requires a level 4+ polymorph spell, so you can get it as a feat at level 9+. Gives you several swift action Su abilities, that last for a number of rounds = to the level of the highest polymorph spell you can still cast that day (4 or more). You can reactivate it as often as you like to re-start the duration. One of the abilities is to gain temp hp equal to your HD. In other words, it's just plain better than Improved Toughness in every possible way.
 

Arcane strike...use with a Whirling Blade spell? Is this a good combo?

Also, what are your thoughts on Arcane Strike feat vs Smiting Spell feat, considering I have several touch spells. Can someone help me with an example for comparison?

If I cast Whirling Blade with a Smiting Spell of Chill Touch or Corrosive Grasp (which have multiple touch attacks), would all my successful attacks on that Whirling Blade discharge the multiple touches that the CT or CG grants?
 
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